Sorry to repeat this, but I had no luck using the search function. Are there any USA-made clinchers? Later I'll post some pictures showing why I'm asking.
No such thing since about 1975 when production of the Montgomery Wards Riverside tires ended.
I keep hoping that some American company will say, "Hey, there's a market for white tires and absolutely nobody is making them, so maybe this is a golden opportunity. Let's put that first on our 'To Do' list and then we can talk about manufacturing runningboard toolboxes!"
... and maybe that same day, I'll hit the 25-million-dollar New York State lottery and take a long guzzle from the fountain of youth.
I've read somwhere making clincher tires is more labor intensive than making regular tires. You can buy quality british made Dunlop clinchers for 362 pounds a piece here: http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/30x3-1-2-dunlop-chevron-tyre.html
That's about $2348 for four including shipping to US. I think there's a reason the bulk production of Model T clinchers has moved to lower and lower wage countries in later decades. The price would likely have to be raised near Dunlop levels if production was moved back to US again.
Now, that's no excuse for current low quality - a couple of quality control engineers sent to Vietnam wouldn't be as expensive per tire.
I think Michelin makes them too, but they are very $$$!
we have three michelin plants here in Nova Scotia, would love to know if they are made there!!!!!
One firm still makes vintage-style tires here in Pennsylvania. I think they make a clincher style as well. Call Universal or Coker and ask.
Phil
Coker & Universal are one in the same and have their clinchers made in Vietnam.
Perhaps the reference to PA manufacturing is because I believe that is where Kelsey Tires (in MO) has the Goodyear 19" and 21" tires made. I asked the owner if he would consider making clincher tires here in the US and he replied that although he had experience with the manufacturing of clincher tires it will most likely not happen because the equipment involved to die size the beads and related curing components is not compatible with domestic manufacturing facilities.
I wish it was a different story - the US-made Goodyears that we have on our Model A seem to be really nice tires.
Here's why I asked. This spring I heard a ticking sound, and found that it was because the front wheel bearings on my touring were shot. Rather than install new bearings in the non-demountable wheels I intend to replace with demountables, I just installed the two demountable front wheels from my TT project. These were the first thing I restored for the TT project four years ago, including new Vietnamese Ward's Riversides. So these two tires were four years old but unused. At about eighty miles (first picture) they were already starting to show wear. At about a hundred miles the left front tube blew out and the tire rolled out in a wheat field and disappeared. I merely took a wheel off another car to replace that one. So now I was driving on one Vietnamese tire while the other rested out in the wheat field. That brings us to the pictures.
This is the tire from the wheat field. Yesterday the farmer harvested and found it. It has about a hundred miles on it, and you can see the wear.
This is the tire that stayed on the car and has gone a little under two hundred more miles. So in just under three hundred miles of use, it shows this much wear.
And just for comparison here's a Made in USA Wards Riverside that's been on one of the back wheels for decades. If Royce is correct it's over thirty five years old, yet it shows less wear than the Vietnamese tire with under 300 miles. This does not make me either a happy camper or a satisfied customer. The people who are responsible for these new tires should be ashamed of themselves.
Steve...
Just a thought...
On my vehicles the fronts weave and wobble more than the rears. Not to deny your statements nor thoughts, but to suggest that there may be other factors at play to hasten the wear.
Yes, I do believe that you are meticulous (among other attributes), and that your front tires are adjusted better than mine...just suggesting...
Thanks again for your great pictures and descriptions.
Dave
Steve,
I think you have a wheel alignment problem rather than poor quality rubber.
My speedster used to wear similar on front left corner of car. (Your drivers corner). I wore out 3 tyres on that corner in the time it took to wear out the rest of the set.
I took the car to the local wheel alignment shop. They set it up on big steel blocks, chained the axle down and then jacked the end of the axle up to correct the pitch of the wheel. They had to do it quite a few times (up 1", let it settle, (1/4" gained,) up 1", settle, another 1'4" gain and so on) until it was right. (The measurements might not be correct but it explains the process.)
It was an older bloke who carried out the operation, the young guys stood around and watched.
I then put on a new tyre and left on a 1500km tour. The casting "pips" were still on that tyre after the 1500km. The cost for the alignment was about the same as a new tyre but well worth it.
Universal lists their Firestone 4-40/4-50 X21 as made in the USA (I think in Pennsylvania):
http://tinyurl.com/cs3q9kk
Sacramento Vintage Ford also sells these tires:
http://tinyurl.com/d3no52g
Phil
but Steve, didn't I read someplace that you had 2 inches of toe in on the front of your T.
That will chew the rubber off in short order.
Steve - Isn't this the touring that had a lot of toe-in? I would think that most of the wear would be due to that. We have had four of the new Riversides for a couple of years now and with a lot more than 100 miles ours do not have anywhere near the wear that is shown in the pictures above.
The rears don't wear, because rubber hardens with age. You'll find out when you have to remove one. Hardness is inverse to traction, so those will be slippery. If I couldn't buy new, I would put those hard tires in front and hope for the best.
Yes, the feathering on the edges of the tread shows misalignment scrubbing.
Yes, I did recently adjust out a lot of excessive gather. So we shall see. Maybe that will slow down the loss of rubber.
Phil, that's not a clincher in the first link. The Sacramento Vintage Ford website doesn't say where any of their tires are made.
Steve,
I know that Lucas Tire in Long Beach is reproducing the original "Ward's Riverside" 30 x 3 1/2 and 30 x 3 clinchers.
I've looked at his website but it doesn't say where they're made.
Well Steve, I guess I won't need to call Stan tomorrow. Sorry 'bout that.
Mike.
Steve, I think you will be much happier with your tires after you get the front end fixed. My coupe has worn out two sets of rock hard tires on the front while you can't see any measureable wear on the rear. The "gather" was at about 1/8" when I got it over four years ago, but the tie rod bolts and bushings have loosened up considerably in the last couple of years. I'm in the process of gathering up parts now. I don't know how many miles I've put on it for sure, but probably in the neighborhood of three to four thousand miles since I've had it. Dave
Those new tires do wear a fair bit i had mine 9 months or so and have almost worn them out (How do you guys calculate your mileage without a speedometer?)
I don't. $20 at the local bike shop.
Looks like the front axle is bent giving unequal camber.
Steve,
I've put about 3500 miles on Riversides just like yours. My right front now looks like your most worn tire. A friend of mine had excessive toe-in as you did. He completely wore out a new set of 4.50-21 Firestone front tires in ONE tour, meaning ONE day of driving!!! Very expensive tour. When he adjusted his toe-in properly he was amazed at all the extra power the car had. Of course, it had no more power than before but now it was used to drive the car ahead versus remove rubber from the tires.
Your Axle is way out, even if your axle was straight, Toe in being off will eat them up in a very short time. Some one said 2 inches, I hope that is a Joke, as it would be you know.
If you want it the best, you can get it by pulling the front axle, and align it. I never like the idea of an alignment shop bending around on a Model T front end. Anyway, then all you have to worry about is the toe in, and you can do it all your self. It takes longer to think about it, then get it done. Herm.
all clinchers including Firestones are made in Viet Nam
Given the amount of toe in these tires have held up rather well. I think the biggest problem that will be experienced with new tires is that they will break down in a few years, whether they are run or not. I have tractor tires that are over 40 years old that are still in heavy service, but I do not have any that are 10 years old, as they have already been replace at least once, and will probably be replace again before the old ones.
Best
Gus
Steve, I usually enjoy your posts. BUT when you say "The people who are responsible for these new tires should be ashamed of themselves" you must be kidding give me a break. Trust me old rock hard american riversides will wear out soon also. your problem is with that frount end. and I am surprised you drove 300 mi and weared out your tires to come to this conclusion with your knowledge. and lets be honest I'm also surprised you drove 300 mi with a T that most likly all over the road. Yes I will agree I would like new tires to run more 6000 mi without wearing out But this is not the case here. I am greatfull of all the people who spend the time to reproduce parts for our T's and this surely includes tires. Sorry to rant like this as it not of my character. I do enjoy your posts but I really can't stand Bashing a product without getting the facts first.
Steve,
I developed that wear pattern on a new Firestone 30 x 3-1/2 in 300 miles. It was due to a toe in of about 1 inch. I adjusted the toe in and tire wear is now normal. I don't think you should blame the tire for the wear pattern.
After seeing Royce's comment about the possible bent axle, I grabbed a square and a measuring tape and started checking things out. Model T wheels don't even come close to being precision instruments, so I did my measurements with the wheels in four positions: stems down, stems in front, stems up, and stems in back. Correct camber is 1 1/2" per wheel. Camber on the left front measured 1 3/4", 1 1/2,", 1 1/16,", and 1 1/8". On the right front I found 1 1/16", 1 3/8,", 1 3/16,", and 13/16". Yep, that's right. I measured it again just to be sure.
Speaking of the new Wards Riversides; and I hesitate to give his name but suffice it to say that a Model T speedometer expert who lives in northern AZ told me a few years ago at Chickasha that his "new" Wards Riversides wore out on the Centennial trip to eastern Indiana back in '08.
An' my high school English teacher told me I had "wordy" complex sentences !!
Oops, I meant to add more. While I was at it I checked gather (toe in) again, also with the wheels in four positions. This time I used a solid wood dowel instead of a cardboard tube.
The combined wobble of the two wheels resulted in these measurements:
If you can't make out all the numbers, they're 11/32", 3/32", 0", and 3/8". I guess I need to do something about all the wheel wobble.
I should also apologize for blaming the tires. I didn't realize the alignment on this car was such a mess. The good news is that the pitch (caster) is perfect.