Teaser alert...Tranny Project

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Teaser alert...Tranny Project
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 03:19 am:

Yeah, Teaser alert…

For those of you who have known about the project and keep sending daily e-mails now on the ‘WHEN, WHEN’ because it was started along about January…

For those of you who actually participated in both the ‘blind testing’ or in the ‘calls for help’ for other parts of the project, I said I’d get it done, thanks…it is all coming together…

For those who chose to ignore requests for info or help or thought the scheme too grandiose and wildly ambitious or wishful, “nah-na-naaa”….(I remember who you are :-) but will not pass along names)

I’m EXCITED and it is actually in wrap-up mode over the next few weeks. Getting the bushes melted to the old era chemical precipitation techniques has almost turned into somebodies modern PhD thesis but I’m assured ‘within 30 days’ on that but all the mechanical testing on ‘blind test’ bushes has been completed.

So, FWIW, here’s the teaser…

Data sheet on first ‘pin’! (The rest are still being compiled and there is a bunch of pins and bushes to go thru )

Look below...debate it up and opinion it up…my conclusions are already in draft now and won’t change. However, you ‘see’ something I missed, sing out before I gather and box up all the samples and the rest of the project shut down as a lot of my guys have their work areas cluttered with 'stuff' :-).

Oh, just in case and maybe save some time, no need to debate the decimal points or decimal hardness…the place is certified to that level for the likes of Benz and Brembo for self inspect, should be good enough for us :-):-)

p.s. For Mr. Purple zip tie...are you getting my emails or having a couple of busy weeks here...or did you give up on me? :-):-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 04:44 am:

Here's the bush that goes with it..........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder - Houston, Texas on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 12:24 pm:

Pretty ordinary 1040 steel there. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 07:27 pm:

I'm afraid it's mostly over my head, George. I appreciate your efforts, and look forward to concise conclusions regarding a troublesome and mystifying part of the T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 08:51 pm:

Ralph,

The final report will be concise (at least for me...lol), but we did have to get to that last pickle in the bottom of the barrel in order to understand what goes wrong and that took gobs of work and lots of looking under rocks so there will be also a near book...lol...for anyone who wants to have further info other than the 'concise' report when it comes up.

Today with folks using so much personal effort in tranny rebuilds and even the great tranny guys trying to help out but then every post on a swallowed tranny just winds up confusing to all. The data and research done as part of this will 99% put it to bed once and for all, and also offer 100% 'bedding' and near 100% success if folks are willing to read 'the book' after seeing the report.

There are probably more collective hours in this than Galamb put into designing it...:-):-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 02:09 am:

I'm with Rick; this stuff is over my head. Okay, I get it that George C. is doing extremely sophisticated homework in advance of making a significant change somewhere in the Model T transmission. Unfortunately the language used to describe the project is so esoteric, I have absolutely no idea what the heck it is he's about to do.

Common, George; how bout a hint for those of us who don't hold a doctorate in engineering?

(and please, no turbo encabulators!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 02:25 am:

Hey George - Normally I wouldn't have brought this up, but as long as Ralph and Bob made the comments that they did, I'll add that I too, usually get "lost" in trying to understand the "engineeringeze" language that you usually use in your posts. And the fact that you usually throw in a few of your usual "nuances" and "innuendos" does't help either!

Again, not being critical George, as I appreciate your posts very much and have learned much from them, however, it sometimes takes quite a bit of "concentration" by a non-engineering type like me!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 03:54 am:

I write as I speak guys...sorry 'bout that, but its me and I'm already an old guy who has known of this limitation and liability since forever.

There is a project with lots of 'donor' contributors to determine exactly what Ford did in the first place...what the aftermarket did in the era....and what is really possible today so it kills all the conjecture that adds 50 posts when someone makes a post that says 'swallowed my tranny at the pins' and 'relatively new rebuild' is trying to figure out what to do next since he rebuilt it at home.

The second part is to confirm whether the modern materials v. original unobtainium contribute to 'the problem'. The third is to weed out fact from fiction on what to do right for the future. the project grew legs as with most things 'Ford' that bottom pickle in the barrel is usually impossible to ever catch (Sorry Harold)

Ways were found to get around the Ford circular logic at the bottom of things with near certainty, that added months and $$$$, but will add lots of new light to other things T in the future (such as why you can NOT use the Ford metallurgy charts alone to find something 'stock' to do a quick lathe job).

My contributors were getting 'ansey'as this thing started last year with a shouldn't take too long and I guess my enthusiasm got ahead of me when the first results started to go full circle and be assembled. I'll apologize for wasting the bandwidth and keep will keep it 'zipped' until the 'concise' part is available.

My own lab measures in metric 100% of the time and 'imperial' means 'in inches'. For those that have been thru it, that D3/D4 above says that if the flywheel it came with wasn't remachined before pushing those pins in way back when (This sample is obviously a replacement pin for those that have been through it before and none of the samples of anything were allowed to be labelled first before sending)...that flywheel is never going to hold a current replacement pin right so put that Loctite away, it isn't THAT good, and chances are the flywheel is probably already spider cracked.

I am hoping to have a concise version for the masses (soon), and a 'series' selection available as to anyone that wants to know more about any given part of the total analysis.

Unfortunately it is not a turbo encapsulator,flux modulator,gee whiz CVT that fits in the space available...and uses all NOS parts :-) but hopefully will be a roadmap to what to consider when rebuilding a tranny at home and not have it go chirp and freeze up in the first 200 miles. The 'book' on the how in steps as such is already written well by Glen Chaffin with no need to revise or correct. But start mixing 'schools' of 'clearance' and how to get it and I'll put my money on you needing the vulture wagon sooner rather than later-that much I already 'see' in the data.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 10:54 am:

Okay, I think the fog is starting to clear. Lemme see if I understand this...

So, you're saying that when the original-equipment pins that hold the planetary transmission gears wear out and need to be replaced, the combination of aftermarket pins and original-equipment flywheel has resulted in stress cracks. And so, you're developing a greatly improved pin, which turns out to be a difficult project because Ford wrote the original recipe in the equivalent of Egyptian hieroglyphics and these, when translated into Engineering English, seem more like alchemy than metallurgy. Therefore, instead of committing to reproducing the pin using Ford's enigmatic data, you're starting from scratch, which is naturally more expensive and time-consuming. Do I have that right?

So, if I understand this correctly, what you're doing should significantly extend the service life of the Model T.

Wow.


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