Repairing driveshaft with new modern pinion

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Repairing driveshaft with new modern pinion
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 08:26 pm:

Did repair to the torque today, re-building with new modern pinion bearing as opposed to the Ford ball thrust and Hyatt pinion bearing.

Have done these before, and each is a challenge, you have to become a mechanic, not just swap out parts, as old, new, and reproduction parts don't always meet up.

Oh, for the old days, when the home garage T owner could just go to the local dealer and get NOS Ford parts :-)

First off, the new repro driveshaft and new repro U-joint wouldn't joint up! A large amount of draw filing with the bastard file on the square of the shaft end took care of that, actually fairly easy as the new driveshaft is pretty soft steel.



Then out with the old babbitt front bushing, used a bushing drive collar fastened to the end of an old steering shaft, and popped it out.



Faced off the new bronze bushing to make clearance, took it down to the edge of the oil groove, and jammed it home. {But later had to more facing.} (On steel part of the U-joint).



A view into the bore of the torque tube showed a lot more skag and flash from Ford's electric welding, now this area is important to clean up as the modern pinion bearing uses a set collar to position the bearing, and that collar can't rub on anything when it turns with the driveshaft.



Had to use the die grinder and stone to remove a lot of weld debris and clean up the joint line.



Now all clean! {Or I thought so :-(}



On with the new modern bearing, the instructions are simple, and easy to do, position of the driveshaft and pull in place with the pinion gear, works fine. Modify the Woodruff key to be sure it won't bump the bearing face.



All done, set the pre-load and fastened tight the bearing collar to the driveshaft.



Inserted the driveshaft, and fit into the front bushing great, and all looks good. Then final test by bolting up the pinion housing to the torque tube to center everything and revolve the shaft. Oops, something grinding at one spot when revolving....its that bearing collar set screw. Rides somewhat above the collar. Only fix now was to grind off the offending abutment.





Then on with the repro U-joint. The rivet hole would not line up, not enough clearance to the front driveshaft bushing, even though it was turned down. So had to grind about 1/16" off the female end of the repro U-joint, those things have a thicker flange than the used Ford part, but my used U-joint was too wiggly in the joints to be re-used.

Once the fit was good, riveted the U-joint to the driveshaft. Hint is to use a brake shoe bolt as the bucking bar for the rivet, same thread size as the cover cap on the housing.


Quality check all your work twice, as you don't want that rivet to drift out and strike the housing as the driveshaft whirls.

....won't bore you anymore with the rest of the rear axle repairs,.... fitting axles to differential carrier, sandwiching fiber washers, bolting up the ring gear, grinding down bronze thrust washers to set pinion and ring gear clearance,...installing outer grease seals and fitting Hyatt roller bearings... and then having the whole unit turn every so smoothly with a short wrench on the U-joint stub.... :-)

All done.....install on Sunday when I get a helper to put this whole thing back in!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 08:37 pm:

A lot of "improvements" aren't, but the Fun Projects pinion bearing is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 12:41 am:

Had the same problem you did Dan with that set screw. Sticks up too much. Had to do a bit of grinding to get it to fit. Now if only we can get that engine rebuilt soon.....sigh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 10:20 am:

Dan, looks good, my first rear end was done just like you explain except i did it upside down when all together it was backward.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 10:40 am:

The set screw should have ample clearance if the driveshaft tube is centered on the spool and there is no welding flash in the first 3/8" of the tube. I hate to see you guys grinding down the set screw head. The head has been cut at a 25 degree angle to gain extra clearance but you need to pay attention to the centering. Some drive shaft tubes do have a lot of slag. It is way easier to remove it with a carbide burr than a stone if you have a high speed grinder that you can chuck it up in. Usually the early drive shaft tubes were worse than the later ones for having a hunk of weld but it is also only at the seam for the most part.

Why does the ujoint not fit the drive shaft? Can you tell me which is made wrong? Both come from the same source so it is strange that they don't mate. What is the measurement "across the flats" of the drive shaft?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 01:10 pm:

John

I didn't measure the flats on the new shaft, or the female bore of the new U-joint.

But the new U-joint would not fit.

That new U-joint must be undersized.

A used Ford slipped right on, but couldn't use the well-used Ford one.

And yes, best I could to remove the weld line in the torque tube, but that set screw, even with the nice angle you grind on it, protrudes above the outside diameter of that l" i.d. lock collar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 02:43 pm:

I also installed one of the fun projects pinion bearing kits and it worked just fine other than having to finally grind down the set screw head just a little. I did remove the slag or flashing from inside of the drive shaft housing plus a little more. The set screw head still would catch or rub. I did get everything centered up the best I could but it still had to have a little of the head ground off.
I kind of wondered if the socket head set screw could be a little shorter and when tightened it would be even with the collar instead of having a slight protrusion.
But other than that everything worked fine.
A good product and I really didnt think much about it till I saw the thread.
And by the way I will use another one when it comes to redoing my 1919 roadster rear end. I just havent got around to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, June 01, 2012 - 03:36 pm:

John

As for the 'same source' of new driveshafts, here is one that is about 3 years old, but not run much.


The new (3 yr new) one is on the left. Ford on the right. The flats measure about the same, .999" across. A used Ford U-joint fit on both of these shafts.

The new (3 yr old) is machined at the U-joint end from 5".


Note the machined down area.

Now I just ordered May 22 another new driveshaft, and it did not have this machined area at the U-joint end. So there is some change of bar stock size, mfg source, or something.


Note the shaft of the new May 22 isn't machined. It is the same bar stock the whole length to the taper for the pinion gear.

This new May 22 shaft and the 3 yr old one both allowed a used Ford U-joint to slip on, but a new reproduction U-joint would not fit and I had to file down the shaft flats and corners.

The newer stocks of U-joint is suspect to me :-)


Ford U-joint slips with ease on new driveshaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 03:53 am:

You did that in one day? It took me a week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 10:34 am:

Nope, have to confess it took two days to re-build the rear end. What made it go fast was in the morning of the first day, made this helping hand for the bench :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Magedanz on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 02:54 pm:

Dan,
That is a clever idea for holding things as you re-assemble them.
Good idea to label it, too... ;-)
How did you make your "Ford" stamp?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 03:10 pm:

I bought a new u-joint from Langs and it fit the drive shaft perfectly so....... ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 03:28 pm:

The helping hand support that Dan is showing in the pic is essentially the same idea thats shown in the MFTCA rear end manual. That manual is a great source for rebuilding information.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 03:28 pm:

Guys:

Opinions don't matter - measurements alone tell you what is going on. I noticed in your pictures that it appeared that the original Ford shaft had the corners ground with a flat tool and substantially smaller in total O.D. than the machined portion of the shafting while the new drive shaft appeared to have the O.D. of the "corners" as the same size as the machined area of the shaft. That might make the ujoint hang up at the corners since it is difficult to get inside square corners in a deep piece of metal. I can't tell by the pictures for sure if I am seeing a difference there but it looks like it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, June 02, 2012 - 05:19 pm:

A pair of two-by-sixes makes a good holder.


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