I am confused about the year of my T's transmission. I know that the 1926 and '27 transmissions have a wider brake (?) band and that the spacing between clutch pedal and reverse pedal is wider than the spacing between reverse pedal and brake pedal. I also understand that the newer transmission has the two ears which would have to match to an "improved" engine for it to have any meaning.
That said, my engine number indicates August of 1920, yet my pedal spacing is 2-1/2" between brake pedal and reverse pedal, yet 4-3/8" between reverse pedal and clutch pedal. It seems to me that my transmission also has the two "ears." So that would indicate a 1926 or '27 transmission, right? But here's the thing: how can a 1920 engine block have those ears for the transmission as well? The only explanation I could come up with is that the P.O. stamped a newer engine block with the old engine number in order to preserve the VIN on the title.
Am I losing it or what?
You've probably answered your own question, but look for any casting dates on the block, or other distinguishing marks or codes.
You can approximate the years of the block by the 'boss' style on the block casting that the motor number is stamped on.
Here is the boss style for a '26-'27 block w/tapped holes for late hogshead brackets to frame.
Here is the another boss style for a '23.
June 1923
1917
I could be wrong. But it looks to me like your block has been modified to bolt the '26/'27 transmission to. I have never seen a '26/'27 block with bolting bosses like that. They have all been flat clear across the back of the block. Yours is probably an August '20 block. Very unusual.
Is your pan a three dip or a four dip?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Look again Wayne. I think the lack of paint around the bolt holes makes it appear that the holes aren't flush with the block. If you look closely, you can see the line where the back of the block was machined. Dave
Wayne
That photo still looks like a '26-'27 block to me...here are some pics of these blocks.
12milxxx '26 block
14milxxx '27 block
Wayne,
I have a 4-dip pan. I haven't taken off the inspection cover -- so I don't know what's inside -- but there has been a lot of real good stuff used on that car, as far as I can tell. If cars could talk . . .
So regardless, that would be an "improved" transmission, right?
David & Dan,
You both may be right. It is difficult to tell in a photo sometimes. I am curious to what the serial number casting boss looks like. Earlier or later style.
Bernard,
The only way to know for sure, is to look inside. It should have the improved transmission inside. But then again, an engine I bought about ten years ago had an early transmission inside an otherwise all late '27 engine, pan, and hogshead. (Like I said on someone's "OH SXXX" thread. Some of the things I have seen.) Not only would that combination lose the use of nearly half the braking drum surface, the woven linings would run on the driven plate bolts and I would think be shredded in not many miles.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Bernard did I miss what your T's year is on your title or what year car its supposed to be?
You did state that your engine number is in the 20's. So is your car a 26-27 T or a earlier T with a 26-27 engine in it?
If you bought the car like it is and its the earlier 20 or so T it could be that the previous owner installed the 'improved engine and trans' in it and then restamped the engine the earlier Model T body year.
I think if his engine is a 1920 serial number, and he has a 26-27 tranny with mounting bosses on the block, his engine would be a replacement block. But that's just me.....
From the one photo, pretty sure its a '27 block, and one would hope the trans is '27 too, and that the entire engine was replaced at one time, being 're-stamped' to meet the title documents. Perhaps its a 'blank' replacement block, a careful inspection of the stamping numerals may shed more info, maybe the stamping boss was ground down to remove the original number and over-stamp was done.
If a real complete '27 block, that is still very nice, as it should contain the stout "EE" crankshaft
Exactly Dan!!! My 1922 also had, as probably most Model T's, its engine swapped at some point with a late 27 engine and transmission.
And I do not mind as it is a much better engine and transmission. It have the "EE" crankshaft, the machined flywheel, wide brakedrum.
"EE" refers to the alloy and heat treating that after so many years turned out to be the most ductile and resistant to metal fatigue. Ironically it is not vanadium alloyed. The rearaxles was also made in "EE" in 26-27.
"EE" cranks are considered the best original cranks.
No casting marks anywhere on the engine. None I could find. The head is a Ricardo Waukesha. The water outlet is the one that has the fan adjuster built in.
Bernard
The boss appears to be original, can't see signs of grinding off old motor number. Guess that was a replacement block, and was un-numbered.
Ford only numbered completed engines for install in the chassis as the one of the assembly steps. Un-numbered short blocks were for replacement.
Also, looking at the numerals of the stamp on your block, the '4' is an open style font, that isn't normal with Ford stamps. Steel stamps most all have the normal 4 with the closed leg at top to differentiate from a letter h.
I have a 26 27 engine in my shop now that was never stamped, going in a speedster project. KB