Being new to the T world, and reading the forum it seams that someone is always having a problem with their carb. When cleaning them out, what is usually the source of the clog?
Rust and dirt.
Varnish from old gas
Jack has it. Most often some little bit of debris that finds its way from the gas tank into the carb. This can happen even if you have a new tank. Most of the vendors sell a little screen that extends up into the tank above the sediment bulb. It can be very helpful. You don't want a paper filter between the tank and the carburetor.
Mr. M.
25 some odd years ago I bought my first "restored" car. On the first tour I had trouble with the carb flooding and/or clogging. The fuel system was beyond dirty. I cleaned out the carb, replaced the tank and fuel lines. From then on every time I fill the gas tank I add a small amount of 2 cycle oil to the fuel. Just an ounce or two. I have had no problems since. Every car I have added to the collection has had the same treatment. On local tours I see many T's that dump fuel out at every tour stop and hear the owners cuss whatever type of carb seat they have installed. Many of these T’s are driven regularly. None of my T's have had any of these problems since I started cleaning the fuel system and adding 2 cycle oil. Several of the self appointed T experts will tell you that adding Marvel Mystery or 2 cycle oil to the fuel system is a waste of money but I cannot remember having puked out any gas since starting this regimen a quarter century ago. I drive my T's a lot but have 4 of them running and some of them may go a month or so without getting on the road. By the way after starting this I have not had a stuck valve on any of the cars as well. Imagine that!
Paul
Paul,
Since I don't run mine very often, I usually add some gasoline stabilizer/preserver. Would that cause problems reacting with a bit of 2-cycle oil being added as well?
Thanks.
Joseph,
I make no claim to be an expert in this area but can report on my personal 1/4 century of experience. In my limited humble opinion products such as Stabill and 2 cycle oil work well together. Since I live in Denver I have a limited time that I am able to actively drive my T's. I have always added Stabill to my T's in the fall in addition to the 2 cycle oil that was in the gas. I have a Honda motor scooter that I drive during the summer and it does not run for 6 months during the winter. It was always a bear to get running every spring. I started adding Stabill AND 2 CYCLE OIL to it last year and had no problems starting it this spring. Just my .02.
Paul
M Philpott, there are internal passages you may not be aware of. Read about them here and see the photos.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/254361.html
Regards,
Garnet
I'm having a problem cleaning out my carb: there is so much junk in there it's not funny. It was rusty too; but reusable I think. The problem i'm having now is that that brass looking bolt on the bottom (I have a Holley NH Carb patent 1912 w/ a 1915 next to it?) is stripped out. It was already fairly stripped when I got it, but I sure didn't help. How the heck do I get the bolt off so I can disassemble the rest of the carb and continue cleaning?
Paul ; You said :[add a SMALL amount of two cycle oil to the fuel ]. Can you tell me what is a SMALL amount ? Is it 1 to 50 or 1 to 100 , oil to the fuel ????
Thanks Toon
Paul, is the 2 cycle oil just doing the same thing as the Stabill? Just a thought for those tech types.
Steve, When I got my T it had a paper filter installed on it, what is going on that makes it a no for the T? Its mounted under the car right next to the tank.
M I think but not sure the reason to not use a paper filter is because of the fact that these are gravity feed systems and the tanks are not much higher than the carb..
If you are running a TT the tanks is even lower than a sedan or coupe so because of this there is not enough head presure to make the gas flow past a clogged or even dirty paper filter.
Hope this makes sense to you.
Two cycle oil will coat the metals and provide a slight protection against corrosion. It will also coat the cylinder walls and rings slightly and give the same result. In the summer or next time it is run the slightly dried oil film will wash away with the new gas flowing thru the carb and engine washing those products away.
J
Jerry is correct. The paper filter is for a vehicle with a fuel pump. It slows down delivery too much for gravity feed.
I would like to add to Paul's comment about 2 cycle oil, I have used BelRay MC1 for 35 years in my powered hangglider, and it stops gas from spoiling. It will keep a small amount of gas stable for years, and works better than Stabil. I do no know how it does it, but it does, and I have started using it in many of my 4 cycle engines, as it seems to replace the top end lubricant that we lost when they removed lead for the gas. If you have an engine that is running poorly due to bad gas, a gallon of gas mixed 100 to 1 (standard 2 cycle running mix) it might improve in a very short time. after the first run with the high concentration of belray, I usually add about an ounce to each 10 gallons. I did this to my wife's Honda 3 wheeler, and it had been parked in the barn over the winter with out turning the gas off, this usually results in a varnished carb and problems starting, but with the belray, it started on the 2nd pull. I think I am going to buy stock in belray oil.
Best
Gus
Jerry, why is the tank on a TT lower than one on a car? Everything is mounted on the top of the frame rail on both of them. Dave
Jerry, my tank is under the seat like most but it is somewhat higher than the carb so I believe that's what is working for the filter setup it has. There is a short elbow right out of the tank and then it has a shout off then the filter and then under the hood it has another shout off and then the carb. I could do away with one of the shout offs and possibly show a speed increase with less weight ha.
Gustaf, where do you get the BelRay so I can compare it to Stabil and the 2 cycle oil.
I still remember as a kid we didn't use 2 cycle oil per say. My dad had me use 30W and then when detergent was added to oils it just had to be nondetergent.
I've never added anything to the fuel except more fuel. Why don't I have any problems?
My gas tank is clean. The fuel system is like it was designed, in fact all the parts are original Ford ones except the shutoff valve next to the carburetor. This car has been to Estes Park and gone up to the million dollar highway and back with me. Ran great up there too.
David, The tank on a coupe or sedan is up under the dash and the TT is under the seat. The outlet is lower so there is less head presure at the carb.
J
I thought only the 26-27 tanks are under the dash.
Yes Jerry, on a '26-'27 coupe or sedan. Not so with the earlier ones. Dave
That's correct. My '23 sedan's tank is under the seat.
All 26/27's have the tank in the cowl except the Fordor and TT which remained under the seat.
Stephen
2 cycle oil has always been a good gas stabilizer. For those who use one, the proof is in chain saw gas. Stored side by side chain saw gas will outlast regular gas 3-1. The green Lucas is hands down the best gas stabilizer I have used so far. It beats Stabil, Marine Stabil and all the rest, hands down. It can usually be found at Walmart or most auto supply houses....
2 Cycle, Stabill or Marvel Mystery oil will cause no problems in a T and have several real benefits. I am not going to argue with self appointed experts about it. From the responses to this thread it would seem that many T drivers have had the same experience that I have had with these products. I wish that we could post what we have found without bashing but there are some that will not accept any derivation from their narrow views. This is why I, and many others, seldom visit the forum any more.
Paul
Hey Paul,
As I have started adding 2 cycle oil to my gas tanks, I had thought back on the old timers talking about adding Marvel Mystery oil to theirs. As a kid, my thought was that they were delusional, but experience makes a believer. It is good to find out that other 2 cycle oils do the same.
I on occasion add a bit of caster oil to the gas of my old motorcycles and have done it to some of my cars as well for one reason only: I like the smell of it!
But through it all has anyone used non detergent 30w? I don't know what would be different from others that have been mentioned like Stabill or Marvil and 2 cycle oil but 30W used to be the standard for 2 cycle engines and when it comes down to the basics will it work as well? As a kid just starting out I picked up the wrong gas can for the 2 cycle lawn mower and I heard about it for weeks how the engine was trash after that. I'm just trying to understand the difference between them and what its doing for the 4 cycle engine.
The reason oil is added to the fuel in a 2-cycle engine is that there is no crankcase full of oil, and the oil in the fuel is the only lubrication the moving parts (including the pistons) get. Without it, the moving parts will seize up and destroy themselves.
As to the additives in fuel for a 4-cycle engine including your Model T, there are two different objects we strive for:
(1) Stabilize the fuel. Modern gas has a lot of ethanol in it, and even without it, the modern gas is much more volatile than gasoline used to be when the Model T was designed - with its vented tank and all. Adding "stabilizers" allows us who use our T's less frequently to lessen the impact of fuel going bad.
(2) Provide some lubrication to the upper parts of the engine, to supplement the T's splash system. This is helpful because, again, the modern fuels tend to be better at "washing" the oil off of cylinder walls, and at the same time valve guides etc. can always benefit from a bit more lubrication.
In some cases, a product added to the fuel will do both things. Others will do only one. Since the makers of these products don't tell us what they will do other than their main purpose, we all have to benefit from the experience of others.
For myself, I use Sea Foam as a stabilizer, and add a couple of 'galugs' of Marvel Mystery Oil to each tank for top lubrication. Does it work? Is this the best combination? Well,who really knows??
I mean, nobody has yet been able to tell us how a fuel stabilizer works -- we just take it on faith and experience that it does.
Peter Thanks, with the get too it last line. I understand the reasoning for 2 strokes as a kid of 6 I used the wrong gas can that didn't have the 30W in it, so much for that engine. But the honesty of the difference between the different types of "oils" I didn't know when it came to the T. But you answered my question in the last line.
thanks, Mike
I will say it is better to put 4 cycle oil in the 2 cycle's gas than it is to put 2 cycle oil in the crankcase of a 4 cycle. My Dad claims to have ruined a 4 cycle lawn mower engine by using two stroke oil in it. It was all he had and thought it would be OK, but ended up buying a new engine. I'm sure the modern 2 cycle oil is better than 30W for two cycle engines, but I have a few old outboards that call for 30W. I have not tried it and don't think I will unless they quit making 2 cycle oil, which may happen one day. The tree huggers are really coming down hard on 2 strokes nowadays. Can you even buy a new 2 stroke outboard anymore?
Hal,
Sure you can, bigger and better than ever. My 2006 boat has a 150 HP Mercury Optimax, which is a 2 stroke V6 with 2.5 L displacement. Goes like a rabbit! Well, a rabbit that swims fast I guess....
I went to an "antique" shop in Klamath Falls last week and the owner is one of those that he has what you where looking for but he still wants to hang onto it. But he has a collection of old outboard motors. He must have about 75-100 of them. Just stuck in corners and holes all over the place. If you can name one, he's got one.
Hey Hal,
One might be able to get away with putting 2 stroke oil in a 4 stroke engine if it had an oil pump. 2 stroke oils do not splash like regular motor oil. @ stroke oil is stickyer and less viscous than regular oil and that reduces the quality of lubrication, but when it is added to the gasoline, it makes it flow better to give good lubrication.
Best
Gus