Hey guys, i'm still trying to get my crank shaft to turn so I can get to the other three bolts to remove the transmission from the engine. I think the problem may be that the engine/trans is in gear.
1) how can I tell?
2) if so, how the Heck do I disengage it so my crank shaft will rotate for me?
Can't you turn it with the hand crank? I assume you have it out of the vehicle. Is that right?
In car? Jack up the rear wheels.
If your engine is out of the car and the crankcase is removed from the bottom, and the hogs head is off and the bands are out, it would be impossible to be in gear. All the gears will turn with the crankshaft and the flywheel. There must be something in the engine itself holding it from turning. If you grab hold of the crankshaft it should turn by hand. If the head is off the engine, it would turn easily If the head is still on, take out the sparkplugs and it should turn easily. Only other things I can think of which could cause it to bind up, would be a broken crankshaft, broken timing gears or something lodged between the flywheel and the magneto ring.
Norm
Wait you must have the drive shaft out or the engine out or I'm missing something for sure. You need better help than mine, LOL.
Yeah it's out of the vehicle. I have it on the ground sitting on some boards. I made sure the valves are clear of the ground. The big gear on the (clutches? those round metal disk the bands sit on) are sitting on the board too hough. Could that be holding it up? Or perhaps there's a pebble blocking the gears in the crank area: that part had been covered in dirt. it's upside down so it's kind of awkward to crank, but no I can't get it to turn over.
more info: the crank case, inspection plates, transmission covers, etc are ALL off: i'm looking into the guts of the engine itself. There's probably some crap binding it up somewhere b/c inside the engine looks almost like new: the original bolts are all still shiny and have the keys locking them from torque and everything, camshaft looks good, cylinders mirrior bright after cleaning w/ kersone (need to crank it more to clean where the pistons are covering the wall though)
Manifold/head is off the engine too.
Matthew
The entire engine/trans assembly must be up , supported, or mounted on an engine stand to take apart the transmission/flywheel/magnet assembly off the crankshaft.
Anything touching the drums will prevent the assembly from turning, the entire assembly revolves with the crankshaft.
Is this a motor of unknown history? Is it seized? I have one that has nice shinny cylinders and is seized tighter that a witches ........
The pedals are off, right? Are you sure the engine isn't resting on any of the valves? Got a digital camera handy? This would be easier if we could see it.
Be sure that the whole assembly of the motor/transmission and flywheel are up, and free to revolve.
You can remove parts of the trans by removing first the clutch spring, and pull off the drum assembly and the go after the flywheel if you wish.
I love this. Not only does Dan have pictures of everything, he's so organized he can find them.
Steve
Its an obsession now, used to be that T's were a passion...old age makes you harden your ways
No secret to my picture files, they are organized to the index of the Ford Parts and Price List! Easy to find things that way...
Won't move in either direction? You've got so much off the unit it seems like some thing is siezed or locked. Pull the conn. rod caps.
But be careful not to get a rod jammed between the crankshaft and the block. Never mind how I know this.
Dan,
Do you mean for him to stand the engine on its nose with the transmission in the air? That should take off any side load binding the bearings.
For pictures, do you use the catalog number or the Factory Number?
aha, see, I thought it might be because the drums are resting on those boards. I'll try to fenangle a rig to get everything free of pressure on it. I don't have $120 for a cheap engine stand, so i'll figure something out to get it that way. If I can i'll get back to you guys and let you know if it rotates now.
In your present configuration, EVERYTHING except the block, is going to move when the crankshaft moves.
Did it turn over before you started to tear it down?
No matter how it is laying it should move a little. If it tight, as zero movement of the crank, look elsewhere. Use a pry bar on the the starter ring with gentile pressure/leverage and try to turn it in both directions.
Matthew, you may be too busy as a student, but if you can spare the time for some weekend farm sales and estate auctions that's a great way to pick up good equipment on the cheap. I think I paid about $30 for my engine stand. Maybe you have a local periodical with all the auction listings like we have here.
Guys
Think he has it now, the whole engine was resting on his garage floor, the last position was with the trans drums supported on timber, that prevented the trans from rotating with the crank......
The more you work on the Ford T engine unit, the more you like cherry picker removal install fixtures, and engine stands with the T motor adapter plate Gets things up so you can sit on a stool and turn the wrenches...
Thomas
My picture files aren't that specific by part #, just have the files titled and organized by the Index heading and sub heading of the Parts and Price List...Ammeter, Axle (Front), Axle (Rear), Drive shaft....etc....etc..with sub folders on many of these files.
I get it --
Matthew was trying to rotate the world!
Matthew, if getting the pressure off the drums does'nt help, check your valves, especially the exhaust, they are bad to stick. KB
Matthew : Before you start to work on an engine ,made or buy a good engine stand , that cost you a day , but it saves you weeks !!!
Toon
If one is considering buying an engine stand for model T work, how heavy is the engine and tranny in complete dress? I've seen stands rated anywhere between 500 to 2000 lb capacity. I know that having the special T engine adapter plate/mount makes the stand more effective.
Matthew, Acquiring an engine stand is a wise decision as quite a bit of damage can be done to the engine without one. Bent valves, ruined mag coil ring and even broken transmission drums could occur while wrestling a loose engine on the floor.
It's also a matter of safety to keep you from pinched fingers and broken toes.
Best of luck on your project.
Eric, your question made me curious so I went out and started weighing things. These numbers are rounded off to the nearest pound:
Four dip pan with hand crank................40
Bare block..............................................89
Crank shaft.............................................19
Trans guts (with flywheel & magnets)...99
Cam & timing gear...................................7
Low head................................................31
Manifolds.................................................8
Mag ring.................................................18
Carburetor.................................................3
Generator................................................23
So far that brings us up to 337 pounds. I didn't have a loose hogshead & pedals to weigh, or a starter, so I'll just guess 50 for the former and 23 for the latter. That makes 410.
I would guess that the rods & pistons, valves & springs, and other miscellaneous small parts and fasteners would put the whole thing between 450 and 500. For a pre-1919 car you can deduct the generator and starter, but I'd take them off before pulling a later engine anyway.
Got it to move guys. Engine is all in pieces now ready to be cleaned and repaired. Crank shaft is serviceable, so are cam shaft, pushers, oil tube, pistons, etc. Needs new valves. The old valves would run fine but they're those two piece ones that are dangerous (may come apart and ruin the engine). Need new rings of course, new gears for the crank and cam shaft. The cylinders are near useable except for light rudt up at the top. I'll try to hone them myself if I can. The transmission will be run as is: take it apart, check for cracks, clean it, get new fuel coil, and put it back together. Hey guys: the magneto still has a charge! helf a 3lb hammer up off the ground, but wasn't strong enough to holdthe piston by itself. All in all i'm looking at $400-$500 in parts to get it running. It's funny, seems God only knows how long ago the owner of this engine did a fix on it and put it back together: backwards that is. The arms/piston rods 1 2 3 and 4 were right, but pistons 3 and 4 were switched. Also, the bolt on piston 1 was facing away from the cam shaft. Tomorrow marks cleaning day!
Oh yeah, I failed to mention: I took the pressure off the drums. It still wouldn't trun, after much lubrication and gentle persuasion it turned out the camshaft was seized up. Got it to break free.