Early straight (non tapered) rear axle shafts

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Early straight (non tapered) rear axle shafts
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 08:33 pm:

Does anyone know of a vendor that sells good quality reproduction straight rear axle shafts?

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 04:52 pm:

Alex,

Bottom Line Up Front: No.

Additional comments:

Good question but I don’t see anyone responding yet so the answer may not be as easy to come by.

I thought I had seen those straight axles offered in one of the catalogs in the past, but when I did some quick checking, I didn’t see them, so perhaps it was in one of the earlier Ford Price List of Parts that I saw them?

If no one chimes in with a good source, here are a couple of options you may want to consider:

1. Contact Lang’s – http://www.modeltford.com/contactus.aspx they often have some one off items that they do not list in their parts catalog. I looked on their web site and found some “new items” but I did not see a listing for limited or one off items. Several years ago I was able to purchase something I needed from them that was not listed in their catalog because they had so few of them.

2. Contact Texas T Parts. I’m 90% sure they are the ones who are manufacturing the current tapered rear axles. I would guess (but I do not know and I haven’t got the resources to check) that the blank they make the tapered axle out of could easily be made into a straight axle. Their advertisement for the tapered axle is located at: http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TTP&Product_C ode=T2505-H&Category_Code=RearAxle
And it reads in part:
Made of high strength Steel Alloy 4140, these axles are stronger than the original Ford axles and much stronger and harder than other modern replacements. The hardness of these axles is between 38 and 41 on the Rockwell C scale. In addition to the improved strength, we make our axles 1/16" longer than standard to eliminate the common need to use shims to compensate for worn hubs. The extra 1/16" causes no problems if your hubs are not worn or if you use modern accessories such as floating hubs or Rocky Mountain Brakes. Our thanks to Elmer Layne and Don Liepelt for their input on the design and production of these improved axles.
See a posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/273025.html

3. There are a couple of photos of the straight axles being made – see the 7/25/2008 posting at: http://www.earlyfordregistry.com/restoration1.htm . They are for the Model N Runabout that Richard Oswald donated to the Early Ford Registry. If you are interested in having some axles machined recommend you contact Jerry VanOoteghem http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profil e=jerry_van-users I don’t remember if he did the machining or if he contracted out the machining for the Model N Runabout straight axles. But I remember they made the rear axles a little oversized to compensate for wear in the original rear hubs.

4. You might want to consider using the tapered rear axles and tapered rear hubs. The tapered rear axles can be adapted (some modifications required) to fit in the earlier rear housings. And the tapered rear drum can be machined and an earlier rear or front wheel portion that holds the hub cap on can be fitted to the rear drum. Note sometime in the last 10 years there was a photo on one of the forums that showed the weld (probably braze) failed when the owner tried to use a rear wheel puller on the modified rear hub. That the braze (or weld) failed is not a structural problem. The added piece to the rear hub has two functions – first to make it look authentic and second to hold the hub cap on to hide the rear axle nut. If you plan to do a lot of touring – that is a very practical way to go. I do know that converting over the 1906-1908 Model N, R, S, & SR rear axle housings has been successfully done by several folks. I do not know specifically how easy or hard it would be to do a similar retrofit to the 1909-1911 Model T straight axle read end.

5. Hopefully someone will chime in with a better lead for you. But if not, those are some options you may want to consider.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 05:17 pm:

Alex Brown:

Take a look at number 2505 on page 1 of Bob's Antique Auto Parts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 05:36 pm:

Alex:

I took another looks at your post and I did not notice you were looking for the non tapered axle. Sorry, the one in Bob"s is tapered. I think maybe Texas T Parts will be your best bet. They are Pros.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 10:13 pm:

Alex - I have one used straight rear axle shaft I'm willing to part with.

Send me an email and I'll send you pictures.

My address is: cgumbinger at wi dot rr dot com

Replace the "at, dot" with the appropriate symbols.

Thanks, Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 10:50 pm:

I would try "Model T Heaven" in Kansas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 12:58 am:

Does anybody else feel that the straight/non tapered axles are probably a little dangerous?

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 02:49 am:

Thanks guys for all your help. Hap thanks as always for a thorough helpful post.

I am sorted for now by the looks from a very help pvt mssg from off the forum

kind regards
Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 10:32 am:

Just for your info. On the AACA forum there is a thread from a guy that is making his own axles for a 15 Buick. You might want to contact him about your straight axles. Let us know what you find out, I have a straight axle car too and may need one. Dan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 10:58 am:

It shouldn't be too difficult of a job for a machinist to make a straight axle. You would want to make sure it is made from the right kind of steel. That is a part that can be easily broken if it is not strong enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 05:34 pm:

Just a silly thought from a guy with a lot of experience with "what can I do with what I have available to me now?" I believe they do make the longer axles for the 60 inch wide track. They would be about two inches longer. Not quite enough. But probably easily and safely modified to fit. Depends upon your circumstances, like how quickly you need something, but having one made right would be better.
Drive safely, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 06:32 pm:

Thanks guys,

I have located a pair of axles already made.

Several people have messaged me from the forum and have concerns about using straight axles.

From a safety and reliability perspective I cannot see any concerns but would be interested in others experiences / comments.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 06:33 pm:

Life is a little dangerous.

The early style axles are not dangerous if you put everything together properly and all the parts are in good condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 07:00 pm:

Alex- Our family 1910 touring has done many miles on the original straight axles and early hubs. Two years ago when the car was taken apart for repainting we took the opportunity to pull the diff down and check for problems. After removing the axle pin the hub needed to be pressed of the axle. Provided the hub cap is in place, the pin is a good fit and the axle is a neat fit in the hub the original configuration should give good safe service for many years which has been our experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 07:33 pm:

I have a 1905 car with straight axles. The hubs were fitted with chambers to fill with grease.The one thing you don't want is the hubs galling up the axles.It will make for a loose fit in a short time if not checked periodically.If you keep any lubricant on straight axles,you'll be just fine.
Anti-sieze is my product of choice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 08:34 pm:

Good point Darren. When we reassembled the axle we used a light coating of 'neversieze' to ensure that thet didn't become 'joined' again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 08:54 pm:

The straight axles and hubs when properly maintained are fine. Remember the 1909 racers that went from New York to Seattle had those axles. And a lot of the driving was "off road" so to speak.



Additionally the same basic axle design was used on the 1906-1908 Model N, R, S, and SR Fords [the axle housing were actually better than the early T housings but the T went back to the N, R, S, & SR style housing (slightly better gears and bearings) with the 1915 rear axle. There no major complaints etc. And of course straight axles were used on other early cars including the Pre-Ns.

I would guess (my new hypothesis) Ford went to the tapered style axles because they were more durable in the long run. I.e. I suspect, but do not know or have supporting evidence that all other things being equal, a 1911 touring with the straight axle would need the axles and hubs replaced sooner than an identical 1911 touring with the tapered axle shafts. How much sooner -- I don't know. Has anyone driven both types enough miles to notice if there is really any difference? I would welcome any information to confirm or correct that.

And if the hub cap did come off the pin can work its way out (quickly if the pin is loose in the wheel) and then the wheel will come off. But how many rear hub caps have you lost? If you forget to put the cotter pin in your rear axle nut, it can back off and you can also loose a wheel.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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