Z Head Gasket Fit, Problem?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Z Head Gasket Fit, Problem?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 12:03 pm:

Rebuilt the engine in my 14. After a few hundred miles I took it apart to check everything out as I am preparing to drive it to Vermont for the T Tour. I am concerned about the fit of the head to the head gasket. See pictures below, it was sealing, but I am concerned that I may have a problem down the road. To me the correct thing would be to weld the oversize areas, and have it milled. Has anyone had similar experience with these heads?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 05:27 pm:

I have never had a problem with a Z head but do use copper head gaskets and Permatex spray on copper coat on both sides of the gasket. That makes the gasket reusable. My cars have been on national tours and climbed lots of mountains with no head gasket leak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 06:00 pm:

I think you will have problems down the track with that, those combustion crush seals can't be running into the cyl like that. That second photo definitely looks like the head at fault.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 08:54 pm:

Dan, mine fits perfectly and I know this will sound stupid, but I can think of only two possibilities.

Was it put on wrong end forward? I am sure you did'nt do that. Something isn't lined up from the looks of things.

Was it a misshapen gasket? I would get a new one and compare with that one.

That's it for my semblance of advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 02:18 am:

Dan Killicut:

If you want to be sure you have the best head gasket get it from Ford-N-More in Spokane Washington, 800-327-1469. By the way it looks like your head could stand some milling.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 06:07 am:

Sure looks like the gasket is OK and appears to be symmetrical around the vent hole. It almost looks like the core may have shifted on the head, placing one of the combustion chambers a little "off". I don't think accidentally flipping the gasket would have anything to do with it, even if it was put on upside down...you'd restrict water flow, but the symmetry would otherwise be unaffected. I doubt that a new gasket will fix anything, but look forward to your conclusion.

I'd check the gasket against your old head and I'll bet it will fit fine. I'd be inclined to run an original head for the tour and sort this out later. BTW, Dave's right...it may look worse in the photo than it really is, but that head appears pretty rough. At the very least, use some copper coat or similar if you reinstall it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 07:23 am:

Clarification please- cast "Z" or aluminum "Z" head?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 07:31 am:

First-Thank you all for your response.
The gasket was on the correct way. This is a gasket from Ford-N-More. I’ve also compared the normal copper gasket, steel gasket, and an original Ford gasket. The head fits the same on all of them. I did use copper spray. I’m concerned about the fact the combustion chamber on the head goes past the crush area on the gasket. I was surprised that it didn’t show any signs of a leak. What I was wondering, is if this was normal for this type of head, and if anyone else had the same experience, or if it was cast wrong? I guess my next step is to call the manufacturer and question them. When I bought the head a couple months ago, they (Zajicek) didn’t seem to know much about model T’s or the use of the head. Apparently his brother took over production of the head after Ralph passed away. They did say they never had problems with it, but I could return it if I did. If they are all like that, there is no sense in returning it. The main reason I bought the Z head was the cooling quality of the aluminum, as I was having heating problems with this engine. Between that and a new flat core radiator from Bergs I was able to get the heat down to an acceptable range. I hate to go back to the iron head.

@John, Aluminum Z Head


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 08:05 am:

The Z heads have been out for so long, I've never heard of a bad one yet. It is possible I suppose. Sounds like you covered all the bases for obvious answers. May be worth exchanging.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul griesse--Granville,Ohio on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 10:29 am:

For what its worth----I had a Z-head milled after several years running and found the space between 1 and 2 clys also between 3 and 4 clys VERY minimal---IE: not nearly as wide as the gasket. Have not done anything more with this head but am kind of worried about using it again. Had no leaks using it origionaly---its an early head---I`ve installed 2 since which did not have this problem (Did not mill either head) Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 10:51 am:

About a year ago I bought a new style gasket (with silicone seals built in) for my '27 with Z head. The gasket came with a note that it is not for use with a Z head. Although it came from a supplier who has been dealing T parts for more years than I've had T's, he didn't seem to know that the part wasn't for a Z head. I've kept it on the shelf and plan on installing it on my '13 low-head engine today.

Yours looks like a copper crush gasket, but is it possible you got the wrong one here? I suggest comparing the gasket to a know good one.

On my Z head the old style copper crush gaskets fit properly when installed with the correct orientation.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 05:30 pm:

I called the company that makes the Z head (Zajicek) , and left a message. Both Harland and Steven called me back. They said they haven’t run into a problem with a blown head gasket with the issue I am having. Harland said he knows there is some overlap on the gasket, but no one has had a problem with it. He said I can return it, but I would getting one back just like the one I have, and suggested I continue to use it. Harland said if I do have a problem down the road I can return it. Unless I hear from someone that actually had a gasket blow out because of this I may just put it back together and try to pull the head as far forward as I can, push the gasket back as far as I can, and see what happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 06:42 pm:

Dan, In the second picture it is starting to blow thru between cylinders. Thats the color you see. You need to do something now. It will not get better on its own. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:14 pm:

I agree with Robert, as I said before, that second photo tells it all, the head is at fault, draw a centre line between the head studs and you have a combustion chamber machined or cast to big, intruding onto the gasket seals.
Take them up on the offer of a replacement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 11:22 pm:

I have blown a head gasket right where you see the problem in the second photo. It is a weak spot in the design. The the real reason I blew it at that weak spot is because I had a radiator leak and the head over heated and warped. Combine the iffy gasket with a head warped away from the block, add in combustion pressures and you are ready for a failure.

I agree with the company, just run it. But first lay a straight edge on that thing and check it for flat!

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Magee on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 12:39 pm:

Dan,

I noticed the extremely poor fit of the head gasket on a Z head even before I attached the head. It seems to me that having exposed metallic gasket material in the combustion chamber is a bad idea, in addition to the potentially poor sealing capabilities.

I posted a thread on this subject about a year ago. The only responses I got were along the lines of "I have never had a problem with the Z head". I still have not installed the head.

Tom


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul griesse--Granville,Ohio on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:56 pm:

When using a copper gasket on Model A engines, we always add a 2 inch piece of copper wire between 1&2 and 3&4 clys. This might work and help seal those clys on your Z head---guess I`ll try that if I ever use my milled Z head as discussed above. good luck---Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 06:03 pm:

Just a follow up on my Z head problem. I returned the Z head. The return was made through Jill Zajicek, who is very nice and extremely helpful. She sent out a new head, before receiving my old one. We offered to pay the return shipping, and she declined our offered. We had the new head to us within three days.The gasket fits this head better. The area between the combustion chambers is still (in my opinion) to narrow. It looks like it will work. Both heads were not perfectly flat. The first one I filed to true it up. The second one rocked on a marble inspection table a little to much, I took it and had it surfaced. In buying another one I would definitely check the flatness of the head before using it.


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