Timer problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Timer problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 04:00 pm:

My car ran like a champ, thanks to Ron's rebuilt coils as well--if not better--on magneto than on battery, but on the last time out it started to run crappy.

I chased the problem and eventually got no spark on cylinder 4 (nearest to the firewall), although I had spark there earlier. Put in rebuilt coil number 5 but it didn't change a thing. Took of the Milwaukee Bakelite timer and the moment I pulled it away from the engine the nut that holds the ignition wire for cylinder 4 fell down and disappeared. Two other wires on the timer case were already loose, so I will use a dip of Loctite when putting it back on.





What I also discovered was a broke spring inside the timer case. It's tiny and connects to the arm that holds the roller. I'm not exactly sure about its function, but it appears as if it will stretch at higher RPM, thus allowing the roller to put less (?) pressure on the timer case?

Anyway, it's broken, and I wonder where I might find such a tiny little spring. I'd also be interested in the function of it, and perhaps suggestions on what a stronger spring would achieve. In short, I'm not entirely sure about what it does.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 04:17 pm:

I've never examined a Milwaukee, so I can't tell you about the spring's function. But check the spring drawers at the local hardware store. There's usually quite a variety, and you may get lucky and find one similar enough to be a replacement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 06:43 pm:

I think I figured out the spring's function on my own. Just forgot to switch on my brain before asking this question. If I'm not mistaken, the spring puts a certain tension on the roller. With the spring broken, the roller bounces off the contact surface inside the housing and God knows when he hits it again. No wonder the car runs like crap. So if I have too strong a spring, the roller will be pressed too hard to the case; if the spring is too weak, the roller will be "flubby" and make only unreliable contact. So I will need a "perfect" spring . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 06:49 pm:

A little to strong would be better than a tad to weak, wouldn't it?

The Smoothness of the surface on which the roller rolls is also a factor in correct operation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Brown on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 07:23 pm:

That spring looks a lot like a GM distributor centrifugal advance spring. Lots of old mechanics will have some of them laying around. Drag racers especially will have some left over from changing the advance curve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 07:27 pm:

Locktite on those little screws might be a bear to get off again. A dab of paint, nail polish, or glue/gasket sealer would work and be easier to remove the nut next time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 08:15 pm:

Measure it up Bernard and I'll give you one off a spare roller - I have multiples to borrow one from. I would imagine they're pretty uniform in strength ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 08:17 pm:

That spring should be fairly strong.....it should take a little effort to push the roller down.
The springs on the new timer rollers are too weak.
I cut off about 3 coils and bend out a wrap for a new loop. It does make a difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 11:23 am:

Use a spring from a ballpoint pen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 11:27 am:

What about using small lock washers instead of locktite?
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 08:07 pm:

Ball point pen springs are compression springs. An extension spring is what is needed in this case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 08:09 pm:

On most rollers the centrifugal force aids the roller pressure so the faster it spins the more pressure it has on the outer rim. I think the spring is primarily for slower going so I wouldn't get too crazy with extra tension on the spring since timer cases and contacts wear out soon enough without extra help. I don't think it is a good idea to try to compensate for out of round timer by adding a ton of roller pressure. Check the perimeter for even wear since if it gets out of round the roller will hop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 11:15 am:

Hal, do you think the ball point spring will react in a different way than one labeled as an extension spring? I would think the only difference is the distance between turns (still close enough to work for extension) and bent up end turns om an extension spring - something you can bend up yourself on such a small compression spring.

But does it have enough strength? I don't know. Good enough roadside repair on a tour, I think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 06:06 pm:

Use Loctite Thread Locker Blue. It's for locking where the connection will be reused. Thread Locker Red is for permanant connections.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:12 pm:

Here are the spring specs for the Ford roller timer.
"Pressure on roller to be 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 Lbs. when outside is 1-1/16 from center of head.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:50 pm:

Wow Ron.......that's more than I figured.......thanks!....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 04:19 am:

Bernard, I think I know what the problem is. Your timer is WAY too shiney! Just kidding. Dave


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