Loose Spoke, Cracked Felloe?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Loose Spoke, Cracked Felloe?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 12:38 am:

If it's not one thing, it's something else, right?

While topping off the tires with air, I noticed a loose spoke on a rear wheel. Also noticed a split in the felloe at the place where the loose spoke joins it.






I'm hoping you guys are going to tell me that the split isn't a crack, but a normal manufacturing seam. I'm also hoping you can tell this newbie about a way to tighten up a loose spoke without having to take off the wheel and tire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 12:52 am:

Bob, the wheel felloe is made up of two pieces of wood. They are joined end to end with a plate and two rivits. This is normal. Your wheel has already been tightened up once, you can see the washers at the end of each spoke. If they are loose again you can tighten them by adding another shim. Try and add equal shims on opposite sides of the wheel to keep it round.

Go look at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/294484.html?1339047701

Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:33 am:

Terry,
My eyes sometimes deceive me, but it appears that there is a longitudinal crack ( a crack running parallel to the fellow as opposed to perpendicular to it and the joint) just above the spoke in Bob's picture.
INMHO - looks dicey to me - I do believe that I'd forego a couple dinners out with wifey, and spring for a new wheel....just me.

Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Button III (Chip), Lake Clear, NY on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 08:32 am:

Might be time for a new one Bob!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 08:41 am:

Hard to tell if the felloe is cracked besides the factory join in the picture, you may want to scrape the cracked paint off to have a better look at the wood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 10:24 am:

When a forum bro looks at something I've got and calls it "dicey," it's time to get real serious. I may have to "ground" the ol' gal just as the driving season gets into full swing. Oh, well.

Will take a very close look at this wheel today and report on what I find—but am 90% sure Dave called it: A longitudinal crack in the felloe (though my wife is of the opinion that the only cracked Model T fellow around here is me).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fenton on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 10:50 am:

I think you are over-reacting to such a tiny longitudinal crack. Are the spokes tight? What is the worst that could happen? What would they have done back in the day? there would have been so much dust/dirt/crud on the felloe that that crack would never have been seen. John. (Just my opinion.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 02:41 pm:

John,

Two spokes near the crack are loose.

As for the worst that can happen — Well, there won't be any spoke-shattering incidents because I sure as heck will not be driving on that loosie-goosie wheel until I figure out one way or the other of safely making this problem go away. So the worst case might be that I wind up coughing up a lot of dough and blowing the short driving season on the sidelines while waiting for a brand new wheel that I might not really need.

I'd guess that back in the day, there was no shortage of local craftsmen who knew how to fix these things. So you'd take your busted wheel down the street to Joshua, the stagecoach builder, pay him a nickel and get your wheel back an hour later. Nowadays, a newbie like me decides whether to tackle a type of job he's never done before or buy a wheel puller out of a catalog and ship the problem off to a pro.

So, okay... let me think out loud a little:

The question seems to be whether to attempt a home repair or go with replacement. Perhaps the crack can be mended with some kind of injected wood glue and a C-clamp. Given the right kind of thin resin and the right tool with which to inject the stuff, that sounds easy enough, even for a newbie like me—but I wonder whether such a furniture repair method would hold up under road-stress.

But okay... for now, let's say I fix the crack. Then there's the problem of the loose spokes. According to what I can glean from the forum, step-one for fixing loose spokes is to tighten the nuts around the hub—which would involve pulling the wheel—not something I've ever done before, but even I can figure out how to order a wheel puller from a catalog and follow the included instructions. If that works, then great; I'm back in business. If not, the fastest replacement might be a used but solid rear wheel from a parts supplier. If that's not available, then it would be a matter of waiting for however long it takes an Amish gentleman to build me a really, REALLY good wheel.

Am I on the right track or are there some quick and easy answers I haven't considered?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Van Evera on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 03:16 pm:

Bob - Love it.... "if it's not one thing, it's something else!" Here's another one. Every little job on a T turns into three more jobs, some not so little!!!

My humble advice, don't "scrap" the rest of the driving season just yet. There are a lot of generous guys out there who can help. If you lived closer, I'd lend you a wheel and tire to run til winter. That's the best time to have new wood replaced... You can search the forums for info on tightening up wheels and get loads of good advice. Loose spokes will usually sound like a couple of horses clickety clacking when you're rolling down a quiet street at 5 or 10 mph. Just knocking on them with your knuckle can often tell you how loose they are. I made a little tool (many guys have) that lets you "push" the rim away from the hub, thereby letting you put a modified washer between the end of the spoke and fellow, like you already have and TERRY explained. If only a couple of spokes have a washer on them, you can "do" some more as needed. I should think you can end up with a safe enough wheel to get you through.
Would I run at 45 in heavy traffic? Answer - I don't run 45 in heavy traffic! Let us know the outcome. Oh, and never, never forego a dinner out with wifey as DAVE said....(my wife made me say that.......) If you need some money, blackmale DAVE by threatening to tell his wife what he said!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha HA!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 04:57 pm:

Well, I took a look at this wheel under a bright light and can see that the darn thing has already been jacked and shimmed to death. The crack in the felloe starts at the oval-shaped "P-plate" and goes in both directions to the next spoke on either side. It's just a bad place for a crack and I'm thinking this wheel has more than earned its retirement.

If I wait for a new wheel to be built, I'll blow this year's driving season, so now the question is: From what source can I buy a good, solid, used rear wheel of 1915 vintage?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 05:38 pm:

Oh Shucks – now I’m in trouble…”Blackmail”....

OK, keep the dinners out with wifey – maybe give up an ice cream run or two? ---Nah – that’s another thing that T’s are good for.

How about putting a “parts wanted” ad in the classifieds? Maybe give one of the vendors a call – Langs?

Different strokes for different folks I know. Yes, there are those that would use that wheel until it fell off – maybe I would’ve 60 years ago. I sometimes wonder why I’m still alive thinking back on all the less than smart things I did in my naive younger years. As I aged, my mantra was altitude and airspeed – now that I’m on the ground I have a love for good wheels and brakes.
Many take chances - some live to tell about it - then there are the others...To each his own…
Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 11:36 pm:

IMHO, never, never, never use glue or epoxy on a wheel. There are good ways to fix a wheel. One is with a new wheel, there are good ways to repair a wheel... none of them involve adhesives or fillers.

I had a wheel in the old days on my '13 which got too loose to shim... I stripped out the spokes and felloe and replaced them with sound parts. On some of the other wheels I cut the rivets and ran a galvanized shim all around the outside circumference of the felloe. Then I heated the rim up and pushed it over the felloe Remove spoke shims first). Nest replace the rivets.

If you aren't sure about your wheel you have to remove the paint so you can see the part. Still not sure... pull the rim off and disassemble the whole shootin' match and inspect everything. If it is good reassemble it and paint it, if it is bad, replace the bad parts and reassemble and paint.

Glues, fillers, and paint will make it look really pretty, but won't replace any lost strength.

IMHO TH

my old '13


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Button III (Chip), Lake Clear, NY on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 12:26 am:

Bob, try putting something in the classifieds. You might find one! Good luck. I will send you a message with a # to call tomorrow night. This friend might be able to help you out....Chip

PS--Don't feel bad, I was out cleaning the T for a show and found that the right front wheel had all spokes loose in the hub, and I mean sloppy floppy loose. Fortunatly I was told that I might be able to tighten the hub bolts up and make a temp repair. It worked!! I will pull the wheel and fix it next week. Looks like 4 wheels will need new spoke jobs this winter!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:36 am:

If I was a long way from home and this wheel was found I think the answer would be to swap it for a front one (if its a good tight one) your weak wheel would be under a lot less stress as it does not need to drive or brake.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 08:29 am:

Thanks for the idea, Peter, but I'm afraid that won't work on my car. The front wheel takes a 30 x 3" clincher tire, while the rear takes a 30 x 3 1/2" size. There are other differences, too.

I think what I need is a good, solid replacement rear wheel or at least something safe enough to get me through the driving season while my original wheel is going through the too-long process of being completely rebuilt by a wheelwright.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 08:42 am:

Bob,

If I were you I would send two rear wheel hubs to Stutzmann. They can make the wheels from there. Usually takes two weeks. Send a check for about $540, they will ship when finished and enclose your excess payment if any.

You also might try calling Don Lang, he might have a couple extra good round felloe wheels for sale.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 12:08 pm:

You might also try to find a square fellow wheel. Square wood fellow wheels are easier to find, are more substantial and you can run one temporarily while the loose one is rewooded. You can salvage the rim and hub from the square fellow wheel to make another round fellow wheel later if you need one. That's what I did when I got caught with a bad wheel and a tour two days away! Now I keep one extra front and rear wheel on hand all the time just in case!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 12:59 pm:

Looking at the top picture and the other one which shows the same spokes, it looks like the spoke at the right in the picture has a jagged crack in it. You need to inspect it carefully to determine whether that crack is just in the paint or goes into the wood. If it were my car, I would get the wheels rebuilt. You might be able to find someone who has a set of wheels you could use temporarily while yours are being rebuilt, so that you could enjoy the touring season. Any Model T wheels should fit even though they are not authentic for your year car. Good wheels are an important safety feature. If you break a wheel you could roll the car. At least it would cause a difficult problem to get the car home.
Norm


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration