OK here goes, l am at level one of a huge 5000 or 7500 mile plan for a T tour that covers as much of the USA as l can fit in logistic wise, time wise and of cause $$$$$ wise.
My initial plan has me or as many Aussies and Kiwis as l can get to join, ship our cars into LA longbeach, do both San Diego and San Francisco ( possibly one at the start and one at the end ), Route 66 in a T, Mississippi River boat cruise, New York, Chicago, "the MTFCA HEAD QUATERS" Ford HQ, as well as a blank canvas in which to start filling in .
-Joining local T club tours will be a big part of this tour, as many as time will allow.
Can you hELP me get thru this with a great plan for a time duration of about 3 or 4 months say between mid June and Mid September or there abouts.
Local knowledge here is a great advantage l'd like to take as much of your local knowledge and clubs as l can.
July 4 parade of cause.
As many states as we can.
IF YOU CAN ASSIST EMAIL ME or post here and we'll see what we can come up with.
AUSSIES are you in ??????
KIWIS are you in ?????
Lets storm/invade the USA with our T's and our funny accents and have a great T time.
David Dare.
Dave, We would love to see you here on the Central Coast of California.
A nice tour of Brass Works and The Templeton 4th Of July Parade.
Ask Peter and Sally Cable If Paso Robles is worth Visiting!
Good luck and Invade, By all means!
We'd sure love to have you, just keep it on the right side of the road!
The locals here could plan their own tour to join in when you get in their area. Some may even want to run the entire tour with you.
I hope you can pull it off. It would be the event of the century (1950-2050).
Peter is certainly on my list to pick his brains.....PETER are you there..
I think anyone who'd want to tour the USA could join at any stage, l'm thinking that somewhere between 2018 and 2020 would be enough time to get this up and running and enough time to plan and pay for the car shipping both ways.
David.
ANY HELP HERE WILL BE MOST CERTAINLY APPRECIATED.
motels that wont charge us like wounded bulls
SPONSORSHIP .... Any thoughts ????
John thank you , thats exactly what we need, ideas of tours within tours, historic spots that should not be missed, your knowledge here is the most valuable attribute for all of us tourists.
David Dare:
Sure would like to see you come to Colorado (the most scenic state in the Lower USA) Two must see places in Colorado are the Royal Gorge and Rocky Mountain National Park. Another very scenic state is Montana including the Going to the Sun Highway. Another visit that would be great is the Grand Canyon in Arizona. Yellowstone is another possibility in Wyoming. If you do come to Colorado on your super tour I can help you arrange group rates at the State motels. I also carry a very large inventory of new and used parts so I can help you if you need something when you get this far. I think my shop is also well stocked with fixtures and tools to work on your Ts if needed.
Dave, thank you very much, l've seen all of those places bar Colorado, but all of those are fantastic places to visit and include on the list and those Mountain climbs are what all Aussies/kiwis and others need to see to believe.
I'm guessing that 5000 - 7500 miles may not be enough.
Car repairs along the way, is certainly a great thought.
KEEP THE IDEAS COMING now we're building a plan.
This may even turn into the "World Tour " of the USA.
Fuel/gas company executives....come join us...and bring your check books.
David, I'm here!!!
Where to start might be an idea if you give me a phone call 02 42 322 331
For anyone else thinking about it here are a few pointers.
You can only take your car in the country for 12 months. After that it must be removed or the powers to be can impound and sell or scrap it. You can leave it longer but must pay all import duties and fee's on the value of the car which is determined by US customs. When the cars do leave at some later stage the duties are refundable. The reason for this is that the Govt does not allow you to bring anything into the country with out the fee's as you may sell it.
You are only allowed to stay yourself in the country for 3 months (90 days) unless a visa is applied for and approved so you may be limited to what you do by that time limit. I could not see that it was sensible to only leave the car there for a year. It has to get there before you so lets say that's May you then can attend one or the two club tours that summer and then the T has to be out of the country by May the following year so summer traveling is out!
We did nearly 11,000 miles in two trips over 18 weeks. There was no plan as such except to.
1. get the Richmond IN in time for the Centennial. I didn't decide on a route until a few days before we left LA and had quizzed the locals. We wandered around doing a lot more miles than necessary as we took in places people told us about and we still arrived early enough to help Jay and Barbara set up for the event.
No accommodation was booked, which meant we stopped when we got to where ever we happen to be late in the afternoon. Good thing about summer it is light till about 8 or later depending how far north you are. If you book ahead you have to get there then, you may find something or someone interesting to visit and be unable to stop because you are committed to be somewhere else. I would never go on an organized trip such as the cross country one that happened in 2009.
Having said that we still needed to allow enough time so we could allow for distractions or breakdowns. You can easily do 200 miles in a day several times we did 300 and of cause others we did nil. A 100 miles is 3 hours drive so you can leave at 9.00 am and have it under your belt by 12.00am have a break and cover another 100 in the afternoon. You have time to check out antique shops have drinks and ice cream breaks and still get to a town in daylight to get a room or campground space.
Don't forget if you are in a group, you may have to slow down or alter your plans if they break down or want to do other things.
On our return trip the original plan was to keep going to the east coast and then ship the car out of Baltimore or New York. Things changed when it was announced that the tour that year was in Pincher Creek in Alberta Canada. So now we are going west and north so its now go to Pincher creek across to Seattle ( do a cruise to Alaska and) drive down the east coast.
Obviously you need to make sure your T is in good shape. The Kamper had been a floor up restoration 15 years before so only a few small things needed to be done. Often you are going to be a long way away from a supply of Ford parts (especially if its a RHD bit) Help will always be on hand through the club and the forum members but you may have to get parts and it may be 2 or more days before they arrive.
Our problems were
New electronic ignition system that couldn't handle the heat of the Mojave Dessert and had to be replaced with Ford coils and timer.
Lousy tires and tubes, Wore out 4 tires had 2 flats and one blow out that chewed out the bead of a tire. Spark plugs were unsuited for the high altitude of Colorado but fixed easily by replacing them. The radiator lost its side panels around Spokane and was repaired by Brassworks when we got to California ( buy the way John some bits have since come loose!!!)
Big cost was shipping $10,000 plus for both ways in a container. You can save money if two cars are put into an 18 ft one.
Thank you Peter, l'll give you a call later, l'm at work...Hmmm O/T !!
I sat down this morning and put pen to paper actually key to computer, with the aid of a trusty Walmart road map and have a basic plan 3/4 the way around so far, that way any local assistance can be had early in the piece.
Not missing many states so far....
cheers David.
Hopefully it will be like Kevin Costner " Build it and they will come "
Great Idea. USA is a great country to visit with the family, there's lots to see, cheap gas and everyone loves Ts.
Cheap hotels/motels are plentiful and can be found via websites like Priceline.
Note the 2018 is the 90th anniversary of Francis Birtles London to Melbourne trip.
Peter, was your car insured in the USA? If so, how?
Well, I think I can give you advise on a riverboat trip. There are, IMHO, three options available to you. First two are daytime excursions. First, is the Belle of Louisville, in that same town. She is the oldest operating steam paddlewheel boat in the US. Very nice trips for an afternoon are available. If I know ahead of time, I might be able to arrange a special calliope concert too (this is true on all three options), second is the Natchez Steamboat in New Orleans. While a much newer-built boat, she was built "right" and uses some very old engines. Again, great daytime cruises, and some really good food on-board (at least it was the last time I was there--best catfish I've ever had).
The third option is much more expensive and will take at least 5 days; a trip on the only overnight real steam paddle-wheel boat in the US (true, she also uses Z drives, but the wheel can, and sometimes does propel the boat by itself). The Great American Steamboat Company has some great deals available.
There is a fourth, non-cruising experience available too, the Delta Queen stern-wheeler, semi-permanently docked in Chattanooga, TN, and you can stay on-board & eat on-board.
T'
David D.
In South Carolina you can visit Charleston which is an awesome old city to tour around in a T.
While there you can see the CSS Hunley, the first submarine in history to sink an enemy ship. Actually it's the remains of the Hunley (pretty much all there.) It was found and raised several years ago.
JC Taylor insured the Kamper no problem.
Forgot to mention also your Australian registration (club plates included) are OK to use in the USA-Canada.
Thanks Peter for our discussion this evening, gives me a better perspective of "LOCAL" conditions
Michael, l think l have SC and Charleston on my initial roughy plan, thanks for the "must see" visit ideas.
Constantine - see what you've started ...well bloody good idea.
David.
Savannah, GA is just a hop, skip and a jump down the road from Charleston, SC. Lots of historic buildings and such, as Sherman was convinced to spare it from his typical pyro-activities. If you go there, don't miss Fort Pulaski. It's probably the best preserved 19th century brick fort on the East Coast, complete with moat and alligators.
Among the many interesting things in Charleston, is the USS Yorktown aircraft carrier.
I'll let some of the NC boys tell what all they have, but the Biltmore Estate in Ashville is a beautiful destination and Kittyhawk, on the Outer Banks is interesting if you are an airplane buff. A ferry ride among the Outer Banks might be interesting for a group of T's.
As far as not being able to stay in country for more then 90 days without a visa, is that consecutive days? Would it be legal to cross over to Canada on the 89th day for a couple of days then back to the USA for an additional 90 days?
You are always welcome here at my place if you make it to Northeast Ohio.
David
Just for planning purposes.....
You will find that motel rates are much lower in the southern US. My experience is that for Kentucky and south you can find a nice motel room for about $50. In the new England area you would be lucky to find the same room for $125.
Of course there are exceptions but on the whole that's what my traveling has found.
Welcome and have a great time!
Cheers
schuh
The 90 days is for a yearly visit. You have to leave the USA 90 days after you arrive.
I found motel costs were all over the place no matter where you were. we even were given special low rates because we were traveling by Model T.
One thing that was really stupid was the costs for KOA type campgrounds. In Nashville we saw a nice KOA as we approached the city. They wanted $60 per night for us to use a grass area without electricity. We stayed at one of the motels for $39 air conditioned, TV. pool, queen bed, and free continental breakfast. Lots of motels offered us reduced rates.
Lots of Model T people insisted we stay at there place, or took us out to dinner at a local restaurant looked after our Ford while we went for a trip to Alaska or in one case shouted us a night at an exclusive B&B. Even had people who had no connection to Model T's or any other car. put us up for the night.
Being in a Model T certainly gives you "Benefits" at Lake Louise in Canada we drove to the Hotel on the lake to have a quick look. We were mustered to park at the front entrance and told we could park there while we went inside and enjoyed an "afternoon tea" all the owners of modern cars were directed to the car park.
David, sent you a P.M. Sounds like the trip of the century. Can't wait to see it take shape and sure hope you guys/gals come through the great Pacific Northwest.
All the Aussies and Kiwis we met over there were simply the best.
Since you're probably going to be off the interstates quite a bit, check this site
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/
for unusual things to see along the way.
If either Charleston or Savannah end up on the itinerary, we'll definitely make the drive from the SC midlands to meet the group!! Cool!
My visa knowledge is in the other direction, but the 90 days sounds to me like entry on the Visa Waiver Program. If you apply for an actual tourist visa, you can probably get it for a longer period. Check with the US Embassy or Consulate General. (You should be able to get the information on the internet.)
Route 66 is legendary, of course, but the best surviving parts of it are west of Flagstaff. From the Flagstaff/Grand Canyon area eastward, consider US 160 through Navajo country (Monument Valley, Four Corners). Think John Ford, John Wayne, The Searchers, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, etc. Mesa Verde, in southwest Colorado, is an archaeological wonder. Farther east is the Cumbres & Toltec narrow gauge railway through the San Juan Mountains http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a1nGxF1bro. It's not as well publicized as Silverton/Durango, but my favorite steam railroad. If you get to the Black Hills, the faces on Mount Rushmore are on everybody's itinerary, but in the same area are Custer State Park and Wind Cave National Park, both great for watching critters.
There are so many interesting places to see that you won't be able to visit them all.
Three or four months in a Model T every day. My old body would not stand up to that big a challenge. (Model Ts are not know for comfort)
The week long national tours are fun, but FOUR MONTHS.
If they go thru my part of Texas, I will be the one in a model T watching and feeling glad that I am NOT on the tour.
David, after the Montana 500 I can help you with this as I have done it. 48 states in 42 days - 10,000 miles in a stock 1926 T couple.
I had 25 people interested in doing it with me. One by one they all dropped out and in the end I went alone.
DAVID DARE:Here in Redding, California you have Lake Shasta, Shasta Caverns, Mt Lassen Mt. Shasta Mtn
west of here is Whiskeytown lake, Trinity Lake, opps in Redding the SunDial Bridge.
Whiskeytown Lake was the last dedication that Kenndy did before his death in Dallas. Old Shasta (city) Historical site of the 1849 era, gold days. Oldest Masonic Lodge In California, it is Western Star #2 In Weaverville Cal, there is a Chinese Joss House one of only a few in the USA>
David Dare:
If you start your tour in California there is many, many things to do and see. Certainly Yosemite would be at the top of things I would recommend. San Francisco is a wonderful city to visit, with its cable cars and fisherman's warf. There is also the redwoods in Sequoia National Park.
If you land in Seattle there is the water front which is really interesting.
MOTELS: If you hit Colorado while you are here, I have 3 extra bedrooms that we could put you up. Also so I am sure that I know were there are some more that will put some of you up. Also while you are in Colorado, I can arrange a TROUBLE TRUCK to accompany you, or pick you up, a SHOP to make any repairs, and a full line of parts.
Rocky Mountain National Park Trail Ridge was voted the NUMBER ONE scenic drive in the US. Its a drive that Ts do all the time. I drive it at least every other week and sometimes sooner. It's the highest continuous road in the U.S, with wide paved roads, plenty of overlooks and the grade is only 4.5 percent. In 1989 The largest MTFCA National Tour ever held was at Rocky Mountain National Park.
What year are you planning to take your tour of the USA? Here in San Diego, we are planning to host a national tour in 2014 probably sometime between June and September. The actual dates have not yet been set. If you are coming that year, we would like to invite you to join us.
Whether you go on our national tour or not, I would like to assist you in the area around southern California. South of Los Angeles. There are some things to see in addition to the generally known places such as Disneyland and Knots. There are also maritime museums in San Diego. There is also Jay Leno's garage in the Los Angeles area. Jay is a well known TV personality with many antique and classic cars. Known to Model T people is Chaffin's Garage, in Corona, Rocky Mountain Brake Company in Temecula.
As far as Motels and Hotels are concerned, you will find those located in large cities to be pricy, and the traffic in those areas heavy, but in the outlying areas the prices will be much lower, and less traffic.
Weather is something to consider. Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas are very hot during the months you are planning to tour. It is not impossible to travel in those areas, but you must have very good cooling systems and take along extra water for drinking as well as for the radiator. A spray bottle of water for spraying yourselves is also good in the dry climates. The more northern areas are warmer in the summer and very cold in the winter. You likely know all this. The California coastal areas are good weather all year around.
Anyway, let me know when you are going to be here. We can also let the Long beach, Orange County club and the Hidden Valley club as well as the Riverside club know so we can all co-ordinate together to make your tour an enjoyable one.
Norm
David,
I will Second Steve's recommendation of the Cumbres & Toltec steam train run. Also nearby is Mesa Verde, an amazing park to go to, and then there's the Grand Canyon--a lot of hoopla about a big hole in the ground!
Bill's right about the Redding area, and if you go north towards Mt Shasta, my brother still runs our family's resort, Cave Springs where you can stay in a 1923 "Auto Court" cabin; one of the few still operating!
And near me, in Oroville is a big Dam, and (since Bill brought it up) the largest intact gold rush period Chinese Temple Complex. Weaverville's is nice, but ours is bigger! (OK, being the curator, I do have a favorite here).
There is so much to do and see, I'm glad I'm not trying to plan this tour! I hope you all have a grand time.
T'ake care,
David D
I would love to help out on the Springfield, IL to Joliet, IL part of Rt.66. I am 300 ft. off of Rt. 66. Tools, repair shop, trouble truck available. I can make reservations or accumulate attraction info.
On highway 66 stop at Claremore, Ok.
home of the WillRogers meuseum and The Davis Gun, close to the worlds largest collection. Can help with any details, plus large shop for repair
A must see is The Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village in Dearborn, MI. They have an outstanding event called "The Old Car Festival" on the first weekend after Labor Day. (Labor Day is the First Monday in September.) OCF is only for 1932 and earlier cars and on that Saturday evening they stay open until 9PM. At about dusk, every one lights up their lights and parades around the village. It's a wonderful event.
I would love to help out in the south east Wisconsin area. Tools, shop and trailer are available.
Our club, The Dairyland Tin Lizzies, has several events all through the summer and would welcome you on them.
If you like motor cycles, there's the new Harley Museum in Milwaukee, and also the Wisconsin Automotive Museum in Hartford, WI.
At any rate, I sure would like to meet up with you and any others in your group.
Keith
WOW! your time schedule of 2018-2020...I wonder how many of us will still be here to help out?
Holy Cow , my email inbox is "Chocker Block" full of help, thank you all very much, l'm slowly getting thru them one at a time, BUT here is my first working drawing and detail of the initial plan of the trip, it will need a lot of expanding and will most likely as Peter and l discussed last night look more like a zig zag of this, to cover as many of the best parts as we can fit in.
The time frame will be flexible with the advantage of an applied visiting visa, but 90 days is probably about right.
I'm guessing that Tom Carnegie is right about the distance 10,000 miles, 5000 or 7500 is probably a little lean.
Below is my working drawing, which from a start point will most likely contain a lot of main Hwy or freeway driving, that is what your local knowledge will fix so we dont miss the good drives.
Peter mentioned dangerous roads, which may be contained in the map drawing below, so if you can see or know of a road that would be considered far to dangerous, please point that out and we'll delete it from our plan and re route around them.
Here Goes for plan # 1.....
The thick red line is the planned route, but we'll need to change this to more suitable back roads and scenic versions rather than boring main roads.
I like the tour working title and l think l'll stick with that.
INVADE THE USA T TOUR 2020
Please let me know in your local areas changes that will make this Tour a better one.
Please nOte, so far l have only managed to get to Colorado Springs, the follow on from there will probably see me go south east and then west again.
Route 66 will need to be incorporated in the top section too.
Wow this is a bigger venture than my initial thoughts, but hell I'm up for it, my wife gives the thumbs up and my kids do too !!!
David.
David, You have my undivided attention! But 12018-2020? I'll be in my 70's by then.
In regards to the time frame, might I suggest April to June. This would enable travel in the southern states before the heat of summer and then head North through May and June. This may also keep the tour ahead of the peak local summer tourist season.
I vividly remember passing a campground at Jackson Hole in July and there was not enough room to put in a tent peg, let alone a tent.
And, I could go a bit early and get to Chickasha swap too.
Allan from down under.
David,
you need to shift the line through the Middle of Tennessee. You have no idea what you are missing. Besides, the Jack Daniels and George Dickle distilleries are here.
Steve
I would advise staying off of I94 in WI, IL, & MI, and I80 in IL and IN. The traffic on them is much too heavy and too fast for a Model T. I43 in WI from Green bay to Milwaukee is ok, but between Port Washington and Milwaukee, stay off of it during rush hours.
Safety should be your main consideration in these areas.
Keith
David-Looks like it is shaping up well. As we discussed no committment for at least 5 years! Two kids to educate,at least two more Aussie National tours and countless local tours. Maybe a few more T's to locate and restore before then also. What is clear is the fantastic comraderie between us and our USA Model T friends. You are all to be commended for you willingness to share your parts of your country and your hospitality with us. Warwick.
For those that live in the Northern states, which month/months from West to east sees little or no snow fall from winter, this will help for reversal of dates.
Allan great idea thank you, if this can be done and worked more quickly l'm sure 2020-2018 can be dropped back a little.
Keith thank you, can you suggest a better route that will be much more T friendly, remember that this plan is just a first up for getting all of these areas sorted firstly, much safer quieter roads are far more to my liking too.
We are currently on the big picture, but the micro part is where l'm hoping you all can help.
If havent got to your email yet, please wait, there are a few of them.
David
Steve, If we turn right Columbus Miss and head North up into Tennessee and up into Kentucky and then re join south at say Winona or Memphis, am l missing anything between there ???
For example :-
Columbus AL to Chattanooga then to Knoxville Tenn to Lexington KEN, then west to Louisveille Ken, Evansville KEN, south to Nashville KEN, ( the corvette plant at Bowling Green ), then rejoin back either Winona or Memphis ????
David.
I don't know why we are worrying about this--after all, the world is supposed to end in December this year. . . . .
T'
David D.
December 21 2012 , your right, oh well thanks, l guess l wont need to plan this one >>>
Warwick - OK.
My post above about visa vs. visa waiver program seems to have gotten lost among all the sightseeing recommendations and other tips. You can read more about the requirements here:
http://www.ustraveldocs.com/au/index.html
Dave,
Take a look at the Natchez trace as part of your route. Its historic and "T" friendly.
Come toward Nashville on it and then get off it on US 64 East. that will take you through the heart of Tennessee whiskey country and in toward Chattanooga.
Steve
http://www.natcheztracetravel.com/natchez-trace-parkway-maps.html
OK l'll have a look shortly at natchez travel, but this is what l've come up with so far, WOW 14550 miles : lets see at an average of 35 miles per hour thats 415 hrs of driving at a max of 6 hours per day thats 69 days of driving, that leaves me 20 days for sightseeing .....Hmmmmm that doesnt seem fair !!!
End of Initial Plan
( re routing to safer roads from here on ).
I've cut the pics into smaller areas in the hope that the overall may be clearer and easier to advise where to and where not to go.
Cheers David.
An off-the-wall thought: Contact the League of American Bicyclists. I believe they have lists of bicycle-friendly routes for people who want to travel slowly, avoid heavy traffic, and see scenery. And serious bicyclists seem to love Model Ts, judging from the waves and thumbs-ups I get from them when I'm out in my flivver.
Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ
David: I am half way between The Henry Ford Museum/Greenfield village, in Michigan and the Model T Museum in Richmond, Indiana. I am just 2 miles off your planned route. I have a SHOP and the ability to fix anything Model T correctly. I will help in any way that is needed.
You list Interstate routes I-75 and I-70 as you routes for this portion of your trip. That is a no-no. You do not want to drive on the Interstate highways in the US whose speeds are 70 mph+. Model T's will not survive in the high speed, heavy traffic. If you are driving modern vehicles interstates are fine. Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio
Jack thank you, yes this is my initial plan, l now need to go thru it and work all of those main roads out of it, the problem l have is what are the alternatives and where are they.
Thank you for your kind offer, if you're that close l'm there.
We only plan to use a main road if nothing else is available and even then only for short distances if possible.
Gilbert, l like the idea, but what sort of speed are we talking about on a bicycle track ??
Scenery, fun,meeting you guys along the way and care are my four BIG's.
Constantine ....
l'll bet Constantine ( the now King of the Long distance tours ) will come, that'll be two '13 Tourings.
I may be able to get the two girls to look after the house while we're away .....in case Taylor and Channen read this "NO PARTIES ".....
David.
Not bicycle tracks - roads! A good cyclist can tour 40-100 miles a day depending on terrain and other things. When offered choices, they tour on secondary or tertiary roads without a lot of car and truck traffic. Those roads are fine for a Model T going a Model T speed, and passing all the cyclists. If you want to go 200 miles in a day, just put two or three cycling route suggestions together back to back.
Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ
David: The interstate highways replaced what were main 2 lane roadways that became congested in the 1960's. Those 2 lane roads generally parallel the interstate highways in many areas of this country. They still exist, for the most part, and are great Model T roadways. Little traffic as most go for the interstate roadways and higher speeds.
David,
Sounds wonderful! I'd be glad to help map out an alternatives to I-5 I-90 in Washington State. I'll send an email with suggestions.
Walt
David, now that you have sort of a rough draft of an itinerary, I think I can lend a hand with the Kansas part. Your inclusion of Wichita is good because of something most people don't know. While Dodge City is famous as an Old West cattle town legendary in radio, movies, and TV, its Disneyland/movie set tourist trap phoniness has never appealed to me. For a more authentic visit to the 1870's, Wichita's Old Cowtown Museum is widely unknown but better, with actual period buildings and furnishings from the surrounding area. West of Wichita I'd suggest adjusting your route a couple of counties northward to get off heavily traveled US 54 and 50, and to include the frontier military post at Fort Larned. Between KC and Wichita, I'd drop US 75 for the much more scenic K-177 through the Flint Hills. As you've allowed quite a bit of lead time, I'd be glad to scout some state highways and county roads that will get you away from the Interstates and heavily traveled federal highways, and in some cases include better scenery.
David,
Have you thought about the Blue Ridge Parkway as part of your trip? It is a good road with low speeds and lots to see. Also I see you don't spend a lot of time in Indiana and I don't know if you would like this sort of thing but the Covered bridge tour looks like something we want to do when we get a car done. If you plan anything in Indiana you want to see and need help with the right road to get you there, I can help. Also, the bicycle routes are your best idea yet for model T type roads. They will be paved and follow main roads in most places but are 1 or 2 miles from the faster roads and the bike clubs are everywhere and all have maps! (I was a bike rider 25 years ago) All you need to do is pick the things you want to see and then pick your roads from point A to point B. They will even know how many miles each route is.
This sounds like a great tour.
Bob
David, you should come further north up into New England. The scenery is beautiful and there is some great driving. The MTFCI tour is in Vermont this summer and just across the lake is Northern New York, with lots of great places to visit and also some great T driving. Also, the site of the 1932 and 1980 Winter Olympics are near by. If you do, please fell free to contact me and I will be glad to help you with planning and accommodations.
Chip Button.
David-
I'm glad to see you have Portland, Orygun on your route! Mi garage es su garage.
: ^ )
Keith
The route 50 from Pueblo Colorado to Lake Tahoe is the greatest road I have ever been on.
The traffic is extremely light, you will see mountain sheep and a lot of unbelievable sights.
You will not see many cities.
It is know as a very lonely road.
You will love it!
Tennessee has a lot to offer, some great T roads, beautiful scenery and good places to stop. I can recommend lots of tour stuff for East Tennessee.
If you bare with me l'll try to do this small stage by small stage and for this excersise l'll go clockwise, if we tour anti clockwise it wont make any difference, the important thing is to not miss something by a mile or so thats certainly not worth missing.
OK
LEG 1..
Longbeach to Paso Robles (CA)
If l take (1) around the coast l can see that it joins onto freeways in and around LA, are these ok for T drivers.....
the path as l see it.
LA-Oxnard-Santa Barbara-Lompoc-Gaudalupe-highway between Pismo Beach and San Luis Obispo-Morro Bay turn right(41) and head east to Creston and left onto (229) to Paso Robles.
From there,is the coast the best way or take a road that runs next to (101) up to Montery or Salinas ??
Then thru Watsonville to Santa Cruz (1) into San Francisco...where l think a day or two should be spent looking around...(I love SF).
Over the Golden Gate Bridge to Redding ( this is where l seem to find only big fast roads ).
Do 80, 505 and 5 have minor roads next to them to get me up past Sacramento and North ??
Redding to Arcata (299) and north to Crescent City and (199) up to Grants Pass in (OR) and onto Crater Lake National Park via (62) and north again to Eugene via (138, 97 and 58)...
Without looking at a map I'll go out on a limb and guess that yes, there are alternate routes for Interstates 80, 505, and 5. There are in most places, with a few mostly western exceptions.
I would suggest that a clockwise route is backwards because of weather. As you're looking at a spring start, you want to do the southwestern desert before the heat reaches its worst and the southeast before heat and humidity make you melt. That will let you cover the north after it has thawed. One road in California (you probably won't be on it) usually isn't cleared of snow until May, and sometimes June or July.
Let me know if you want me to scout some Kansas roads for you.
When a group from St Louis drove to Dearborn in 2003, we used Google Maps and checked "Avoid highways." We still looked at the route carefully, but what GM gave us was pretty accurate.
David, I notice from your map you are planing on making a turn around in Tampa Florida. If you add about 250 miles south (round trip from Tampa), you can visit the Ford/Edison winter estates in Fort Myers Florida. I'm virtually certain a Model T tour would be welcome there. If they knew in advance that you were from Australia and you were doing a US tour, there's no telling what kind of an event they could cook up. Ask Peter Cable if he went there
http://www.edisonfordwinterestates.org/
Anti clockwise it will be, time of year and weather being the contributing factors, thank you, l'll keep routing thru clockwise for the end result so if l'm getting close to your area, please let me know if l'm close to where l should be and have not missed a great look at something.
Cheers and keep the ideas rolling in, Florida down a little further sounds do-able.
David.
Route 66 ....finally l found it... bits and pieces thru Cal and Ariz.
Tracking west to east l am guessing that to follow Route 66 from California thru Arizona requires negotiating some tracks of main highways ??
Some have mentioned weather for the Northern states, but you probably won't care for the Deep South in July or August either. Hot AND humid.
David, please tell me that you have gone to the website for US visas for Australians that I linked to above. The difference between 90 days and six months or more is significant, and will make a difference as you pick and choose all the places you want to go. All the above suggestions for things to see are well and good, but not much use if you don't have enough time to see them.
In deciding on the paint and trim for your trip, don't lose sight of the nuts and bolts.
An older couple, Joe and Betty Swann, is about to start from San Diego, drive to the HCCA 75th Anniversary tour in Colorado Springs in company with two other old cars, and then drive from CS home to Virginia unescorted - in a 1912 E-M-F. They will be blogging their trip on the E-M-F web site. They will be tent camping. You might be interested in following their progress. It may give you some ideas.
Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ
There may be some places along old Route 66 through California and Arizona where you have to use the Interstate, but not as much as you might think. For example, in looking at satellite views it appears to me that the amount of Interstate highway you would have to use in California totals less than ten miles. There are long stretches off the Interstate in Arizona too, though there may be more than ten miles of Interstate 40 necessary between Seligman and Flagstaff. All this is from Google maps, which cannot be taken as gospel in all instances. (Part of I-40 west of Needles is labeled "US Route 95 in Idaho". Huh? Ah well, with the help of folks along your route I'm sure we'll work it all out.
Dick, yes , last vist 18 months ago, l had the family in on a visa for 12 months , via US Dept Homeland security ESTA, that gave us up to two years. very easy application to fill in on line, they reply with an Application # and Approval record.
"Visa Waiver Programme"
Pretty easy, l think not to gain one you'd have to have a criminal record or something similar ???
Cheers David.
Yep to hot in the South that time of year, l think l'll make the start date either April or May or maybe even mid-March, do the Route 66 out of LA then stop offs up to Las Vegas, Grand Canyon (South side ) Colorado Springs,the back to 66 up to St Louis, then the Kentucky Tennessee parts, then it becomes a bit hard, down to Folrida to stay in front on the heat or Finish route 66 up in Chicago ???????? then do a big figure 8 of the US instead of a loop, still using the original plan from Chicago back around the top to the west when its hotter down south.
******Now to start looking for SPONSORSHIP DOLLARS from big Companies ***************
David - If you are not familiar with the program "Streets and Trips" by Microsoft, I recommend you obtain and install a copy (by Amazon.com is one way). $65 US will buy a disc with GPS capability so you can navigate with it en route. This program has amazing capability to allow you to pick routes anywhere in the US with great detail and you can tell it to exclude certain things like major arteries. It will also print out your route with incremental street directions (with turns) and mileage as well as total mileage. It would be a very good thing if you obtained a copy and learned of its capability. If you have "lieutenants" in the US assisting with segments of the tour, this would be a great aide to them also.
I am located in Siren, WI (west central WI with a garage for repairs if you need help around the Minneapolis, Duluth, Madison area. Have trailers so I can transport if necessary. I will follow your posts with interest to see how this develops. I was chair of the committee which organized the 5-day MTFCI 2011 national tour in the US, so I can relate to the complexity of the job of setting up this one.
If you are not aware of Peter and Mary Bernhardt (225 Finders Way, Charlottesville, VA. 22901), they organized the 2009 Ocean-to-Ocean tour, 4400 miles from New York to Seattle, WA. Peter may be of some help with advice on setting up your tour. Some of the routing on that tour could be relevant to your tour. Sorry I can not put my hands on an email address for Peter and Mary, but someone else will have it.
Steve Boyd
Gilbert, l would certainly be interested in their trip.
Can you post a link here at some time.
Cheers David.
David, if your itinerary includes St. Louis, please keep me posted. The St Louis club can organize (or organise, for Aussies) something.
Whether you are going clockwise or counter-clockwise through the US, I have some recommendations when you get to the the southeast. I'll send you an email with WAY more detail on specific roads and how many miles, but for now assuming you're going counter-clockwise (probably the best weather this way), I have a pretty solid trip lined up to get you from Savannah, GA to Virginia Beach, VA. There's a really great route along the coast (so you avoid I-95, which is basically 98.763% pine trees and nothing else)
So you can take a peek at it, you'll mostly follow Highway 17.
Savannah, GA to Beaufort, SC to Charleston, SC to Myrtle Beach, SC to Wilmington, NC to Jacksonville, NC.
At Jacksonville (there's the largest Marine Corps base on the east coast) you will turn off 17 and head over to the coast and get to
Morehead City, NC (I'm in Havelock, about 15 minutes away) to the Outer Banks! You'll get to take a couple of ferry rides. (Again, I'll provide more details on times the ferries run and cost and all the different sights to see). As you head up the Outer Banks you'll pass Kill Devils Hills and Kitty Hawk, where the Wright Brothers started that fuss about airplanes. From there you will meander up to Virginia Beach, VA and then you can take the absurdly long Chesapeake Bay bridge-tunnel. If you think the Outer Banks seem like driving in the middle of the ocean, just wait till you hit this bridge! After that you're up in Virginia and out of my area of expertise.
Also, the earlier poster that mentioned driving through east Tennessee is exactly right. Everything between there and Asheville, NC is some of the most beautiful driving country in the US. If you come tour the country and miss that part, the trip was wasted. Well, maybe not quite, but it IS exquisite and a must-see.
Hopefully! In 8 years I'll be able to afford coming on the whole trip with ya'll. If not, I'll definitely meet up with you and ride from Savannah to across the bridge in my great-great-granddad's '14 yellow speedster.
Another note, usually by mid-June, and sometimes earlier, Hal Davis is understating things. Georgia and the Carolinas are absurdly, ridiculously hot and humid. Depending on how long you are able to stay in the country and how long the trip is, you'll really want to have made it up into Virginia and even past there by the end of June. Not sure what you're used to in your part of Australia, but my dad is a Marine and I've lived or traveled through almost the entire US, but the Deep South is rough in the summer for those who aren't used to it.
Just to complicate things a bit, I'll point out that the weather will depend not only on time of year, but also elevation. In mid-April the lower Sonoran desert is delightful. The high desert will get chilly at night. And sometimes at that time of year, the Rockies and other high places in the West may freeze your tookis. Here's a picture I took a few years ago on US 50 in Colorado on April 17.
Good GRIEF. That's just crazy. Even ignoring the safety issues in driving in weather like that, can you imagine how cold it would be to run your T for ANY appreciable amount of time if it was snowing like that?!? Yowza.
I'd say drive through Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas sometime in April, so that you start hitting Miss, Bama, Georgia, in May, then up through the Carolinas before it gets much into June. All that depends on how long you can stay and what all you want see, but then you can be headed up north before the summer really gets into full swing.
Tom Carnegie did something similar to this. He kept a blog. here is a link to his post on MTFCA.com
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/6/1425.html?1045371511
Link to the Blog: http://www.myspace.com/superttour/blog
Link to the route: http://www.antiqueautoranch.com/superttour/routes.html
Youza, l am looking at pic of the car in the snow and thinking " no way" am l driving a T touring with my family ( predom female ) in that, a little snow on the road and edge ok but in a snow storm in an open car ...... NUP !.
It certainly sounds like Alan Bennet had it right, with the anti-clockwise direction and temps, and you guys have cetainly made my mind up , Its early here now but come mid morning a lot of these ideas will be mapped, the St louis to Chicago or loop in and around Ten, Ken looks like it will work.
I am only missing a few states ( sorry )but if l was to take every state l'm guessing l'll be there more than 100-120 days, which is probably way to long for a T tour, remembering that they aint the most comfortable car to drive in for long long periods of time.
I think this plans is now starting to come together.
Thanks again for both your input and your interest in helping, l wasn't sure at the start if this would be widely accepted and so many folk be more than happy to assist where needed.
A big thank you and hope you can continue to help when this tour gets up and running.
If l can get enough interest and sponsorship, this event may even be able to run much much earlier than 2020.
I need :
1) a shipping company to come up with a plan to say , "we'll ship your cars from Australia to Longbeach for FREE" !!( and home too ).
2)-6) running sponsors
7) a major manufacturing company.
If l can get #6 onboard, l think the other 6 will follow very happily.
Pie in the sky ????? maybe not !!!
even so ,if any sponsorship deals dont work, pay our way is the most likely eventuation and the original thought /plan....thus the time frame, it's not going to be a cheap venture.
I think this will be a tour of a life time, and a hell of a lot of fun too.
David.
David, I don't know your interest with Chicago being on your tour but just to make you aware there are two car ferries that cross Lake Michigan. Many people take these to avoid the Chicago area. As long as you plan on being in the SW Michigan area a visit to the Gilmore Car Museum would be worth a side trip. http://gilmorecarmuseum.org/
Gary
Gary, Mike, both of those ideas are on my now ever growing folder of stop and see spots and must do's.
cheers and thanks for your ideas.
David.
David. looks like you'll be coming right through my town of Pierre, SD. You won't need to worry about lodging or a place to park the car or repairs!! Yea, it's a few years away but I plan on still being here!
Dave if you need some info up here on the North Olympic Peninsula in Washington state please contact me. We are next near the Park entrance close to Hwy 101. What time of year would you be coming through as the rainy season runs from October through June and Summer actually starts July 5th. An interesting note here, there was a Ford show that came this way on Hwy 101 in 1922? from the Seattle branch. This would be like a 100 year anniversary and I have the story somewhere about this. Let me know..Fred
Noel and Fred, thank you, if your that close a visit sounds well in order.
WOW what a great photo, l wanna drive that road.
Running anti clockwise, along the southern states via route 66, starting say about April sometime, that would put me up there ......... l haven't a clue at this stage.... a guess would be late April/May sometime.
David.
Dennis asked:
"As far as not being able to stay in country for more then 90 days without a visa, is that consecutive days? Would it be legal to cross over to Canada on the 89th day for a couple of days then back to the USA for an additional 90 days?"
Time spent in Canada counts towards the 90 days USA visa waiver program...you must leave North America to get another 90 days.
David,
So how long is the tour likely to be?
G'day Constantine, my guess is 100-110 days, by the time you allow for days off, stops, manybe many stops along the way, ie.. Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Colorado springs,+++ a day at the horse races in Lexington Kentucky, the Jack Daniels factory, the ( Chev Corvette Factory ), +++ the Ford Factory in Detroit, the Henry Ford Museum, the MTFCA HQ in Richmond IN,New York, the civil war areas down south east l'm kinda skipping a bit here, it would take about 35 days non stop at about 210 miles per day, but there you have it, l'm still working thru all of the suggestions l have to date and plot a path to cover as many as l can, but the big thing to remember is the South for heat and humidity during the may thru ??? August period, we'd want to get the south done early and have the north for comfortable driving on the way back west.
Accommodation and the like is still going to be tricky l think, but l have plenty of time at this stage to sort thru that.
David.
Are you now on the north home stretch ??
David, it looks like you're coming up the west coast in that map. Would love to buy you guys a tall cold beverage of choice on your way through Oregon!
Danial, that was my original plan, but many folk have mentioned the heat down south further into the months og late may june july, so we'll get those out the way first, and finish off with a down the west coast run.
A cool Beer l hear you say, Hmmmm l'm there.
We've had a few from your state so l guess we'll be spending a fair bit of time in Oregon.
cheers and thanks for the beer ( albeit some time aways yet )..
Different folks have different styles of travel. Some stay only in hotels and motels, some only camp out, and some do both. If you do any camping, there are three categories to research. KOA is a chain of commercial campgrounds that provide space for a tent or trailer, showers, laundry, and usually a small store. National forest campgrounds are one of the greatest bargains going. Except in California with its teeming masses, they are often uncrowded. They're often in scenic locations. National park campgrounds, being in parks of course, are often in scenic locations too. They're often busier and more crowded than national forest camps, and have more restrictions (Example: you can't gather firewood). In addition to those three categories, there are other commercial campgrounds besides KOA, and there are many state parks with campgrounds. There are websites for all the above.
Thanks Steve, l'll write that one in too.
Danial, If I am able to make the tour, I'll have a Henry Wienhard's dark ale please.
Allan from down under.
ANything you guys want...grin...when you make it this far, the least I can do is buy the brew...grin...
As for places to camp in Oregon, there are dozens of beautiful little county parks along the coast. Inexpensive and in great locations.
Steve, to add to your comments above about campgrounds. When Anja and I did our trip in 1977, we had a copy of the Rand McNally Campground Guide. Around noon each day, we'd start figuring out where we planned to stop in late afternoon. It had a very detailed list of amenities by campground.
My trip this past week has reminded me that long stretches of the USA airwaves are a cultural desert consisting of preachers, fatuous political blowhards, and minimally varying forms of rock from heavy metal to redneck. If you do any listening when you travel, it's nice to have some of your own music for these dead zones.
America has the Mother Road and The Old Man River. 'nough said.
Most of the camping spots will be either in the west or east mountains. Some places in between along rivers and lakes. From the west coast to about the center of Colorado there are many mountains. It is very green and rains a lot along the north coast north of San Francisco. The southern coast is drier and warmer. As one goes east from the west coast, you will find forested areas, deserts and more sparse population. After you get past the middle of Colorado or other states north or south of Colorado, you will find that the topography gets flat and that is where most of the farms are located. Almost every state in the plains looks alike until you cross the Mississippi River, where you will again find some mountains and forests until you get to the east coast, which coast is also more populated. Each geographical region has its own history and our history goes back before Columbus. There were people here when the white Europeans arrived. Each tribe has it's own story to tell and a unique history.
Anyway, that's the way it appears to me. Each one will see it with their own set of eyes.
I wish you an interesting trip.
Norm
Norm
Sorry I didn't post links to the brass-car transcontinental trips. I've been at a couple of tours out west (Minnesota and Colorado) followed by a week with the family at a dude ranch, bouncing around on horses and away from computers.
Joe and Betty Swann's blog can be found at emfauto.org. When you get there, click on Swann 2012 EMF Adventure. It appears they're going to make it back to the east coast in time for the E-M-F homecoming, a week-long tour in Pennsylvania starting Monday and hosted by my son.
Joe and Betty were accompanied as far as Colorado Springs by a couple of other brass cars. Mike Sullivan blogged their trip at hcca.org/wordpress/. They lost two Brand X cars on the second day, but were able to replace one of them with a Model T that made the trip just fine.
Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ
WOW, thanks for the additional details, l have ( l believe ), now 5 takers so far for this mammoth trip, l'll be setting a new posting soon and l'll try to taylor it to specific areas so as not to confuse the whole trip, if thats ok with you, l'll place a state name next to "Invade The USA T Tour"and hopefully l can get this full route sorted before xmas.
Thanks again for the details and views, l'm gathering as much as l can before l stand up and talk about it at one of the next club meetings.
David.