Can anybody give me advise on staining a Kingston coil box? Were Heinze, Jacobson Brandow and KW the same color too?
Ford used a red stain on their firewalls and the suppliers used a red stain on the wood coil boxes. Something like a cherry or light mahogany, or perhaps a mix of the two. The original boxes seem to be mostly mahogany wood.
This sort of color is appropriate - car belongs to Rich Ness, St. Paul MN.
Here's the correct color on the dash:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/283190.html
The original coilbox finish was a shellac. I successfully duplicated it using orange flakes and a lot of aniline and other dyes. I did a few boxes with it as a base and then followed with 5 clear coats of UV resistant spar. They came out gorgeous, but faded anyway. So I have gone back to the stain and varnish approach, again mixing my own stain.
I did a box with it for Russ Furstnow's '11; he may have a photo of it. I forgot to take one myself before bringing it to Chickasha this past March.
Thanks Randall, but that leads to another question. If the '11-'13 cars had cherry veneer dashboards, and mahogany coil boxes stained to match, did the '09-'10 cars with mahogany veneer dashboards have coil boxes stained to match?
That I can't answer with certainty. The early Kingstons may not have matched the dash color, or the dash may have been colored differently. I have an original '09 box and its finish is clearly a more typical orange shellac under the switch. However, the switch was off the box when I got it, so it may have faded, as shellacs are quite prone to doing.
Just to add some confusion, here are 2 Kingston boxes that are totally different. The lighter one has been mine for at least 20 years and the previous owner said he didn't refinish it. The darker one, i don't know much about.
The current Model T Times features Gail Rodda's beautifully restored '09 touring. His Kingston coil box matches his lightly colored mahogany dash. Gail has been around Model T's for a good many years, and without hearing his comments, I think his color choice is most correct. In the day, If the coil box and dash were both shellaced they would look the same.
When Ford switched his dashes from light mahogany to dark cherry for 1911, did all three coil box manufacturers start staining their boxes a darker color or did they just continue to finish them as they had been for years?
Fellows, is there any indication that any attempt was ever made to match the colours of the coilboxes and firewalls? I can't imagine Henry ever bothering, given there were different suppliers and different timbers used.
My totally original Heinze box is made with a mahogany coloured timber, and if I wet the timber on the inside, it is the same as the finished colour on the outside. Shellac is most likely the finish applied. I was able to even out some blotches using methylated spirits to soften the finish. Fading would not be a problem as the underlying timber has its own colour.
Just for discussion.
Allan from down under.
Kim,
Thanks for posting the pictures, I didn't see them till I posted my last comments. Seeing the light colored coil box adds to my belief that all pre 1911 boxes would have been a natural mahogany. That darker box looks like it could have been refinished to go in a car with a cherry dash. The data plate didn't just fall off a nice coil box like that, somebody removed it for a reason, probably for sanding, and it never got put back on.
Under the FWIW category, here is a picture of an August '13 Walkerville built. The car never saw the light of day from the time in was found in a barn in the 50's in Ontario until the present.
The box looks like it has been 'worked' some time in the past because it looks pretty nice even today, but notice the color at the lid seal and the difference to the sides. Since the car never saw the light of day since it was hauled to USA...can't be UV fade...had to be there when it went in the barn in the first place, I think. Either that, or that is the original color fade and someone just steel wooled it and added a coat of varnish.
always hard to say...just add it under the FWIW...
Bottom line you should not expect the cherry firewall and the mahogany coil box wood to match, even with the same stain. They came from different places and were stained using different products. If they matched it would be incorrect historically.