Differential Thrust Parts

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Differential Thrust Parts
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 06:59 pm:

Okay, I split the rear axle today, and I have the evil babbit to remove. Which is better, thrust plates, or the roller thrust bearing sets? Opinions please.
Doug


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 07:16 pm:

Bronze washers. They'll last longer than you will. The roller bearings just introduce superfluous complexity to increase the chance of something going wrong.

If you want to improve something, use the Fun Projects pinion bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 07:16 pm:

The bronze ones last forever.

No advantage to the roller type, so why risk having one fall apart and destroy everything? Newer, more complex and more expensive is not better.

This is another example of something you can buy for your T that fixes a problem that does not exist, yet is capable of causing serious trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 01:01 am:

Doug,
Listen to Steve and Royce.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 03:48 am:

Maybe the roller ones were for racers wanting to reduce friction?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 09:48 am:

No, they are for vendors to make extra money. They don't reduce friction in any measurable way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 10:23 am:

To each his own, for the ease of set up and over 60k I favor the rollers. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 10:44 am:

How would using roller differential thrust washers make setup any different?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 12:21 pm:

There is no advantage to the roller bearings. They cost more and have more moving parts which increases the possibility of failure. If the thrust bearing came apart you will loose your brakes and trash your ring and pinion. As Steve said, the bronze will last a very long time. I have done three rear ends, all using bronze, and had no problems setting them up.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 01:09 pm:

i would like to see a picture of the rollers that have come apart in the differential.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 02:11 pm:

The proof is in the pudding. This set of roller thrusts was only used for about 3 years. Needless to say, l run bronze thrust washers now.
1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 04:03 pm:

If the rollers has an even diameter - and it seems they have, they can't roll without some slipping - the thrust washers has different relative speed at the inner and at the outer end of the rollers, so the rollers can't follow both speeds.. could that be the theoretical limitation that makes them failure prone? (together with the cuts in the thrust plates for the pins that goes into the bearing surface..) rollers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 04:20 pm:

The pitting on the rollers was terrible and the race surfaces are shot.
1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 04:22 pm:

The roller at the arrow is broken and half missing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 05:36 pm:

Looks like water in the oil. I use roller bearings at over 10,000 rpm with 3,500 pounds pressure on them. Some have been in service over 27 years and look like new. They have less drag than rub type bearings. I have the rollers in a 27 touring for over ten years and all is well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 05:43 pm:

Will they work in a water pump?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 06:52 pm:

Robert, I agree, looks like water. they hold up in modern automatic transmissions under lots more heat and pressure. Not trying to change anyones opinion(if that were possible) grin, just saying it works for me. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 07:41 pm:

Those pics of Daves are result of maintenance failure and not mechanical failure. There must have been quite a bit of water contamination for a prolongend time for that to occur. I'd be checking the differential for pitting too.

Does anyone have any real proof that they are trouble prone? Given the slight clearance between the races and bearing itself when installed I cannot see a roller simply popping out. There is just no allowable room for it to happen.
I think there is probably some benefit to these in cars driven at high speeds and cornered hard. For regular 35mph use the bronze no doubt is the more fail safe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 08:33 pm:

[quote] Royce in Dallas TX
No, they are for vendors to make extra money. They don't reduce friction in any measurable way
[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blish_lock
If there was enough pressure they might. It would take more pressure than one would find in a model T diff'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 06:45 am:

I think the rust on Dave's failed roller bearings happened in a box under the work bench. They would not look like that if they had just been removed from a rear axle.

In any case the bronze thrust washers are well suited to the job. The roller bearings represent over complication and unnecessary expenditure for no gain of anything.


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