Coil box problem 1911

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Coil box problem 1911
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 10:33 am:

I have installed a rebuilt ( R.V.Anderson ) coil box on the 1911, I have Gail Rhodda's wire harness and the new Anderson timer, I only get spark on 1 2 & 3 nothing on 4
I have moved coils around and they all work in different locations, I have checked the wires with ohm meter, checked the coil box on # 4 for power and its there, no wires are grounding out, replaced new timer and get same results, tabs in coil box have been cleaned and ohm meter checked the terminals, still nothing, if I had any hair left it would be pulled our by now, any ideas, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 11:06 am:

Robert,

Sounds like there might be an interruption in one of the leads to your #4 coil.

1. Does the coil in #4 position buzz at all?

2. If not, try switching a timer lead with #3 and see if it buzzes now. A buzz indicates the lead or timer contact for #4 is faulty.

3. If no buzz, then the problem is likely in the coil box contacts or wiring. Make sure all of the springy things on the front wall and bottom are "out" so they should make contact with the buttons on your coil. Compare them to the contacts for the other three coil locations that work.

4. Try grounding the coil box contact for #4 directly using the bolt sticking out of the coil box. If it buzzes now, your problem is in the wire lead.

5. If still no buzz, check the bottom coil box contact. It is the one that brings in the magneto or battery voltage. If it isn't touching the bottom contact of the coil you won't get a buzz.

Please let us know what finds the problem and fixes it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 11:19 am:

I have tried all that, the contacts are all out far, there is power on the spring on # 4 I even ran a jumper wire direct from timer to coil box 2nd new timer, cant figure this one out, used a ohm meter and everything checks out good, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 11:25 am:

I put # 3 wire on # 4 terminal and still nothing, all contacts are out and clean and power is on bottom spring ( big puzzle )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 11:43 am:

The coil needs power and ground to operate. One of them is missing. Why? You should be able to connect the #4 timer connection to ground and get the coil to buzz.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 11:49 am:

There is power on the bottom spring checked that, should I run ground wire from top term to block and see if it buzzes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 12:58 pm:

I guess, if it were me, I would be asking R.V. Anderson why it won't fire on #4.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 01:18 pm:

Robert,

Yes. If it does, the coil box is good. If it doesn't the problem is either the timer or the wires from the timer.

To test the timer you can hook a multi meter set on ohms to the timer wire and to ground.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 01:28 pm:

I meant to type "If it does buzz with a wire directly to ground, but not with the timer wire, the problem is either the timer or the wires from the timer."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 01:38 pm:

2nd brand new timer, no buzz on 4 switched 3 to 4 and still no buzz, checked all wires with ohm meter, all are good, check the contacts also all out and good, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 01:39 pm:

Should I try grounding top terminal on # 4 to engine block will this hurt the coil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 01:46 pm:

I hooked up a jumper wire from top terminal on # 4 and still no buzz must be in the box is my guess, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 02:34 pm:

Bob:

The spring on the front edge down below on that coil is suspect. Being a coil spring it may be that the top coil upper edge is sitting slightly off center and thus resting on WOOD part of the coil box. Since the thing wont buzz at all take of the coil box lid and momentarily touch the contact points on top of the coil. They should spark if the spring down below is touching the bottom of the coil. It is also possible that when you put the coil down on top of the spring that you just proved was hot, it now moves away and is no longer connected. Check the subfloor wood that has the coil springs since I suspect your problem is at that junction. One end or the other of the coil spring is cold and not connected to power at one end or not connected to the coil at the other but this likely only happens when the coil is in place and resting on the spring. I would solder the brass lower spring end to the wire that provides its power to prevent any intermittent at that point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 02:37 pm:

I meant to say "touch the contact points with a ground wire" in the same way you touched the top row of coil box connections with a ground wire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 03:15 pm:

I pulled the coil box off and put another wood box I had here for this car that I was going to use before I bough R.V.'s and now buzz on all 4's brand new motor and it feels tight cranking it, will have to tow it, got back end on stands and in high gear but cant spin it very fast, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 03:56 pm:

Robert,

Following John's post above, take a look at the spring contacts for #4. They come in both a left and right hand version- to accommodate changes in coil size over the years. The ones for #4 should be identical to those for #3. The contacts at #1 and #2 are the opposite hand. Having the wrong offset in the contact finger could be enough to hit wood instead of the metal contact. Hope that is it. It's a simple fix once you have the right contact.

Here are pictures of the contacts and their Factory Numbers:

Right Hand Terminal Bolt Contact
T-5811 RH Contact

Left Hand Terminal Bolt Contact
T-5812 LH Contact


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 03:59 pm:

What sparkplugs are you using Robert? It sounds like you've swapped everything else except sparkplugs. I had a Champion 25 plug that would not fire. I put in 4 new Champion X plugs and have been smiling ever since (and running on four cylinders)!

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 04:17 pm:

Bob and I have been in contact via email. What he has is a set of my all new Heinze coils and a new box. We're trying to establish phone contact and will take it from there. It sounds like something in the box rather than a coil issue, now that he has all 4 firing in a different one.

Thomas, the Heinze contacts are all the same; they don't come in rights and lefts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 04:26 pm:

I see something else now trying to start this, engine is timed right with # just past tdc. but cranking it seems to want to backfire through the carb, another fine mess, fire order is 1 2 4 3 and thats right, cant think straight right now with the heat, any ideas on this one, R. didnt get the phone # went straight to voice mail call me back if you can, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fenton on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 05:12 pm:

Timer could be off by 180 degrees. Some camshafts are drilled right through and your roller drive pin could be in the wrong side. are you sure it is timed just past TDC on compression stroke?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By don ellis on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 05:23 pm:

I bet John hit it on the head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 10:27 pm:

RV

It sounds like the round coil spring power contact for the bottom of the coil for #4 position is not making contact either at the coil end by being off the mark with regard to coil unit contact alignment or else the other end of that round coil is not making contact with the buss wire that provides the power coming from the front panel switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 12:31 pm:

Thats what the backfire was 180 off, here it is she got her bath and runs like a champ, thanks for all the help, will be getting the other coil box fixed then re install, , Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 02:33 pm:

John R, I agree. As I know you know, original Heinze contact springs are seldom exactly vertical, with the result that when the weight of the coil bears on it they spring away from what should be the center even more. More than likely, the "fix" will be simply to remove the center divider and bend the spring back in the right direction, while also twisting it into a new contact position with the "buss wire".

Bob, very nice looking car! Glad you have her up and running.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 03:15 pm:

Thank you for all the help, due to some family issues the car is now on t-bay, will be starting the new speedster project soon, thank you, Bob
Got the colors picked out for the new speedster project, ready to start


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