If 36 volts works for mag recharge, how about 48?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: If 36 volts works for mag recharge, how about 48?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 11:50 am:

I'm going to try an in car mag recharge using a golf cart charger. There are also 48 volt chargers, would that get me closer to the desired recharge, or is it overkill (and harmful to the coil ring etc)?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 12:30 pm:

I have done the "Out of the car Procedure" with three 12 volt batteries.
I do not know exactly what current is passed thru the mag ring, but I think it is "greater" than the current output of the battery chargers you are talking about.
Maybe someone else has done this before with a charger?????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 01:12 pm:

Rob, If you are using an electronic type charger it probably won't work as the board will read a direct short and won't supply power. You can however by pass the circuit board with a jumper wire. I use one that has been by passed to de rust in a large electrolis tank. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 01:22 pm:

Remember it's amps not volts that does the recharge. Not being big on electrical stuff, that might be 180 amps at 36 volts (3 X 12 volt/60amp battery)when charging using batteries.
People have used a DC welder at the lowest setting.
Check you charger to see if it will even put out the 48 volts. Even if it will, what would the amp output be?. The charger we had for the floor sweeper in the shop would not charge completely flat batteries. There had to be a bit of charge left in them to tell the charger there was something there to charge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 02:23 pm:

Remember that the early 09-10 cars with Kingston and J-B coilboxes have the mag and battery positions REVERSED. The mag terminal is on the passenger side and the battery's on the driver's. Some boxes over the years have had these connections "put right" by unknowing restorers by crossing the wires under the switch. Be sure to double check this if you're doing one of your early cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 03:11 pm:

If I recall correctly, three 12 volt 60 amp batteries in series will give you 36 volts at 60 amps. Three 12 volt batteries hooked up in parallel will give you six volts at 180 amps.
It is the amps that charge the magnets, 60 is way more than enough. The voltage is needed to push the amps through, but you do not want too much. It is also voltage that will burn through the insulation in your mag coil ring and result in an even deader magneto. Higher voltage means higher risk. Years ago, many T owners experimented with the combinations of voltage and current to determine what the best amount was. They found that three 12 volt batteries in series was the best balance of charging the magnets and not blowing the coil. Right where they said it was back in the '10s and '20s.
I used to know T people that would charge the magnetos with only one or two 12 volt batteries. But they lacked enough "push" and the recharge usually didn't take really well.
Electricity is funny stuff. Some electrical engineering training I had years ago said that a standard six volt 90 amp car battery could (under specific conditions) kill a healthy adult. A common 12 volt automobile battery can not. It was one of the reasons engineers pushed for universal 12 volt systems in automobiles back in the '40s.
It is the current (more or less amperage) or power that can kill you. Voltage does not.
I used to grab and hold a 2000 volt connection. It had a pretty good bite, most people could not hold it because their natural fear of electrical shock would not let them. Because it was a limited power supply, it put out 2000 volts at .00000? amps. In fact, its only use was to demonstrate electrical dangers, or lack thereof.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willard Revaz on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 04:37 pm:

Wayne,

I think you have your series and parallel backwards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 04:56 pm:

Rob,
I did an "in car" on my TT a few years ago with a 48V golf cart and I just finished my 15 and used a 48V golf cart with the mag ring laid on the magnets. Use the golf cart--not the charger. Drive the cart up to the T, raise the seat and hook to the appropriate terminals with a good set of jumper cables, hook the pos to the mag post and strike the neg to ground. For me the most stressful part was making sure everything was correct before you strike! For the "in-car", I used the book, "The Model T Fordowner" and followed it step by step. Remember your first priority should be to do no harm!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, July 01, 2012 - 01:49 am:

Willard,
Do I? I do get confused these days?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, July 01, 2012 - 10:37 am:

I guess I get nervous when postings talk about people being hurt by electricity. Just for the record, a lot of the people listed in news stories as having been electrocuted were in fact not electrocuted. To be electrocuted it takes power and time to in fact fry internal organs and cause death. What happens more often is that someone gets "shocked" and their heart stops beating normally and they die from a heart attack. Shocking is a very dangerous thing and far too often I get people asking me how to hook up a T coil to shock someone as a prank. This is simply NOT a smart thing to do. Regardless of your age you should avoid being shocked since it can be fatal if your heart is forced to skip a beat or starts beating incorrectly as a result of a shock. It does take more than 6 or 12 volts to shock someone but if there is any sort of inductor involved then you can get a pretty severe shock off an inductor that has been momentarily connected to 6 or 12 battery if you happen to be holding onto the wire connections when they are disconnected from the battery source.

Be careful.

I respectfully doubt the validity of the story that 6V - 90 Amp battery was found to be more dangerous than a 12V battery and that was part of the reason for change from 6V to 12V. Please explain that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Sunday, July 01, 2012 - 11:26 am:

I was always told in the electronic classes I attended that as little as .010 amps passing thru your body in the right location can cause death.
I was instructed to work on higher voltage circuits with one hand behind my back and not leaning on any metal that could provide a path for the current.
I think that practice may have saved my life more that once. I worked as a service representative on oil field equipment and some water and sewage controls.
A 6 or 12 volt battery itself will not shock you, but as John pointed out, an inductor in the low voltage circuit can step up the voltage and cause shock. (When disconnecting the wire)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, July 02, 2012 - 01:53 am:

That was told to me about forty years ago by an electrical engineer that taught electrical engineering as well as consulted to PG&E and many others in sorting out what the cause of damage was after it had occurred. John and Willie both touched on the "secret". It is the available amperage stepping the voltage up by the breaking of high current connection that becomes potentially dangerous. I have never been willing to try it myself.
Electricity is funny stuff. It becomes dangerous under conditions most people do not understand. Yet, thousands of volts may be totally harmless to any breathing human.
Golf carts have enough power to be potentially dangerous. So do any all-electric cars.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Monday, July 02, 2012 - 02:32 am:

The other day I was charging one of the T's with a large shop type charger. I was leaning on the T and touched the charger and got a full 110V blast. It still didn't seem as bad as touching a spark plug though. I gotta' get that charger looked at.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 11:06 pm:

I don't think that 48 volts would give you much benefit. Charging the magnets in the car with the magneto ring is basically the same principle as a magnet charger. Long story short, iron can only hold so much magnetism. The point of maximum magnetism is called "saturation." In other words, for the first several volts (and amps, by extension), the magneto ring for the most part behaves exactly like you think it would. The more voltage you put in it, the stronger the magnetic field becomes. However, once it reaches that point of saturation, you can put even more voltage into it, but the magnetic field won't get any stronger, and you get no benefit. I believe that the magneto ring reaches saturation at far less than 36 volts.

Now here's my discussion about electricity. First of all, as an electronics person, I've been shocked by all kinds of things. It hurts for sure, but that's about it. Of course if the voltage is REALLY high, and the current is also high, then that can be fatal. However, there are countless other factors that determine whether or not an electric shock can be fatal.

A lightning bolt is one of the most powerful bursts of electricity on the planet, at more than 1 million Joules. However, 9 out of 10 people who get struck by lightning survive. Weird, right?


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration