POLL: Rocky Mountain Brakes or Not

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: POLL: Rocky Mountain Brakes or Not
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:06 am:

How many of you are running a Model T with either Rocky Mountain Brakes or some other kind of after-market brakes?

(I'm running RM brakes and some kind of after-market, metallic-lined brake shoes in my handle-operated, Ford parking-brake drums.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:08 am:

Oh... and how many are NOT running any kind of after-market brakes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:24 am:

I sure like my Rocky Mountain brakes. Be darned sure that your Model T transmission brake is properly adjusted because the Rockys are weak when backing up, particularly if they are wet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:29 am:

Two T's without accessory brakes, but good working emergency/parking brakes. Working on another that will have AC small drum accessory brakes.

One T with large drum RMs'...the preferred tour car...... Sure does stop well :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:54 am:

I have Bennett's on my TT. I really like them. They stop very well when traveling forward and, unlike the Rockies, they do equally well when backing. I wouldn't be without them, particularly since I have a Muncie aux. transmission!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 11:00 am:

Rockys on all 3 of my T's. Lined parking brake on all 3 and adjusted so that parking brake applies first and then one more notch the Rockies apply. This is for rolling backward. Rocky applies first then the transmission brake when using the brake pedal also for rolling backward. I need all the brakes I can get because of the mountains around here. Backing off the gas while in lower gear is not enough to stop. I have some hills I need low Ruckstell and low pedal at the same time to ascend.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Mahaffey on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 11:11 am:

After 40 years of ownership, I put RM's on my 27 tudor, and I quickly became very fond of them. I could never go back to the transmission brake alone, and I don't see how I got along without the RM's. The transmission brake is simply insufficient for the heavy sedan in modern traffic.

Initial adjustment of the RM's is a challenge. A bad impression of this brake system is usually the result of improper adjustment.

I am quite used to adjustment and care of the mechanical brake system on a 1929 Model A, and I can testify that the rear-wheel RM system is far superior to the 4-wheel pull-rod brake system on the Model A. The force-equalizing bar and the external contraction both make the RM an excellent brake.

I am particularly delighted by its ability to hold the sedan and keep it from sliding backwards while stopped at a light on a hill. With the original transmission brake, I would cringe as clearances in the drive train would resolve to hold the car on a hill. I have heard accounts of back-sliding with RM's, but I have not encountered this.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 11:24 am:

So far only my Fordor has Rockies, and I haven't had a chance to drive it. The '23 touring, which I've driven most, is completely stock except the rear brakes are lined. So far I've found it completely adequate for rural and small town Kansas. The same goes for the '15 runabout, which I haven't driven as much. If I were in central or western Colorado, or other parts of the West, it would be a different story.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 11:53 am:

I have Rockies on our '26 Roadster Pickup and wouldn't be without them.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 12:18 pm:

RM's was never marketed in Denmark back then (and probably not needed anyway), but I have coinsidered to mount them in order to better fit in modern traffic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Leonhardt on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 12:48 pm:

Our '26 Model TT Closed Cab weighs in at 2900# empty. With the Rocky Mountain brakes I can lock the brakes -- wouldn't run without them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 12:53 pm:

Disk brakes, today's brakes for today's roads.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 12:54 pm:

I have RM brakes on my coupe. Never having driven any other T, I can't say much about them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 01:04 pm:

My pinion gear broke as I was climbing a hill. If it wasn't for the Rockies my wife and I would have been hurt for sure.

Steven


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 01:28 pm:

I have Rocky Mountain brakes on my touring car and they are great when dry and I'm going forward. They are marginal in reverse so I just stay alert.

I have 4 wheel Metropolitan hydraulics on my speedster. Very effective and not as glaringly modern as disk brakes. I tried Rocky's on the speedster but didn't like them on a car with a light rear end on dirt or gravel roads.

I have some 11" iron drums on my 26 Coupe and plan to use mechanical linkage to lined shoes on it. It won't see nasty roads too often and two wheel brakes should be OK for the way I drive it. At the moment, it has only the transmission brake connected to the pedal and the rear drums activated by the emergency brake handle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 02:22 pm:

I have an early set of Rocky Mountain brakes which came with cast iron drums on our 13 touring. They stop in both directions. Both new and old style stop poorly when wet. I have a Ruckstell and would not drive my T without accessory brakes. Where I live there are a lot of hills....some very steep.
I like how modern disk brakes work....but do not like how glaringly modern they look. Also use lined parking brakes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 05:11 pm:

I have a large drum ruckstell with lined shoes on a '23 Touring, so no Rockies for me. I alternate between the brake and rear pedals and only use my parking brake when rolling to a stop since it also puts the car into neutral.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 05:17 pm:

One speedster with Muncie and Ruckstel has lined emergency brakes and will slide the rear wheels,so, I've never worried about it too much--I try to avoid heavy traffic. Other speedster also has Muncie and Ruckstel and has hydraulic rear brakes--the peace of mind makes any drive relaxing and enjoyable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 05:33 pm:

Bob-
I have some AC brakes for my cars, but I am ashamed to say they are not on yet.
: ^ (


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Button III (Chip), Lake Clear, NY on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 07:32 pm:

Bob,I have Rockies on my Depot Hack. With the added weight of the body,the Ruxtell Rear and a strong engine with a 280 cam, I am very glad they are there. I love them!!....Chip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 08:57 pm:

I have Bennett Brakes on my 25 Coupe, doesn’t stop much better than the stock brake, but more positive. I have Rocky’s on 3 others. Two on a 26-27 rear end, one on a 20 rear end. The 20 works much better, because of the larger supplied brake drum. I have an original set of Rocky Mountain’s for the TT, but not installed yet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 09:08 pm:

Bone stock here, but may add some sort of period correct rear wheel brakes in the future.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Streblow on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 09:29 pm:

Bob, I have a 24 TT with a muncie and RM brakes. Won't leave home without them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schiebe - Plymouth, MN on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 10:39 pm:

We have a 1925 Model TT that has been in the family since new. My grandfather added a Muncie Transmission back in the late 20's. Many years ago I pulled out on a service road that had down hill slope and bumped the Muncie out of gear. I did get it stopped with emergency brake but I was lucky and shaken. You don't forget that event and don't want it to happen twice in your life. So installed RM's on our TT and later when I purchased a 1914 Touring put RM's on that T. In the process of putting disk brakes on my speedster. Properly adjusting the RM brakes and transmission brake is key.
TT


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 11:36 pm:

I drove my 23 with stock transmission brakes for several years on a couple of tours. I have had Rockies on for the past 4 years and love them. I have to push down harder on a hill and engage the transmission brake if it is trying to roll backward. I doubt the Rocky's would hold if the ring or pinion broke, but they would likely help as I grabbed for the lined parking brake. I also don't like the looks of the disks on an antique car, but will state that they are the best brake available if looks don't matter. It's your car!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 12:52 am:

I have run different Ts stock or with differing aftermarket brakes. The center-door sedan I used to have had lined inside shoes for the brake handle, properly adjusted, they could lock the rear wheels even on that heavy car. The service brake was as Henry built it. I liked it.
My '24 coupe has modern "Rocky Mountain" brakes. (I tend to be a bit annoyed by them being called that because they are really a modified reproduction of large drum AC brakes. Real Rocky Mountain Brakes were made in the '20s and reproduced in the '60s and were totally different.) The modified AC brakes work great forward, hardly at all in reverse. The coupe also has a later large drum rear end with good inside brakes on the handle. Together it is a great setup for the mountainous area I live in.
The boat-tail has what I think are large drum Bennett brakes working off the brake pedal. There is no connection to the transmission drum brake. It also has the small drum inside lined brakes on the brake handle. Since I repaired a badly worn cam, the brake handle can lock both wheels. The Bennett brake pedal onto the large drum locks both wheels much easier, with better control to not lock the brakes. It also works backwards as well as forwards as I found out when it sheared the pinion key.
Several of the Ts I have had used after-market emergency/hand brakes (different original or reproduction brands), and kept the service brake just how Henry made it. I used the handbrake for most of my stopping, and got very good at grabbing that handle in an emergency.

Other than the wheels themselves, coupled with the drums for inside and/or out, and the suspension and axles that hold everything in place, Your pedal/service brake and emergency/hand brake should be totally independent of each other. No mechanical cross-shaft or brake rod or equalizer should be common to both. The potential for a single failure causing the loss of all brakes is too high. I do not like the setup I know a lot of Ts have because they are not two complete separate systems. The truth is, in Califunny, they may also be illegal for these reasons.
I want my cars to be mostly vintage or reasonable facsimiles thereof. But I also like my vintage brakes to work reasonably well.
Two brass era Ts I am working on I intend to do what I did on the center-door. Well adjusted lined shoes in the small drums and the transmission brake how Henry made it. I liked it before and think I will again.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 01:30 am:

I have had RMs on both of my cars, 21 Touring and 27 Tudor. On the Tudor I have the equalizer setup on a separate cross shaft making the RMs and the emergency brakes totally separate. The 21 Touring has never had shoes on the inside of the small drums. I have the lined shoes waiting for time to install.- John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson, OZ on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 02:24 am:

Asbestos (or something like that) linings on the stock handbrake shoes and Kevlar on the transmission brake band.
I'd like a set of Rocky Mountains though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Monday, June 25, 2012 - 05:43 am:

My '26 is stock.
If I have to, I can lock up the rear wheels with either the transmission or the handbrake so Rockies, discs etc would do NOTHING for me (except reduce the torque reversals on the driveline).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 11:17 am:

I have real Rocky Mountain Brakes on two of my T's, and enough to put a set on the '13 roadster I'm working on. These are the ones made in the '20s which work forward or backward, and use standard hub bolts too! The only change I've made is I use cast iron drums. I also use the original equalizer and 3/16 cable. When Jack Sunderlin made up the first design, he didn't research enough, and had Bennett up front and Rockies in back. If he would have done his homework, everything would be ok. I agree, they don't work very well in the rain. It's almost scary!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 11:26 am:

Let's face it one of the reasons that drum brakes went away was they left you flat when wet. Take that same lining and totally expose it by having it outside the drum is probably worse. That being said I'd rather have them than not. Like some of the guy's here say: I drive like I have no brakes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 12:26 pm:

I have RM brakes on my '15.I love them.
If you have lots of kids like me,they're a God-send :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 01:45 pm:

You can get along without accessory brakes if you are stock. We went on the Santa Clara 200 mile endurance run and had to adjust the transmission brake three times during the run. Came home and installed Rocky Mountain brakes.

In 1963 had a 1912 C cab delivery wagon and missed a down shift on the Warford going down a steep hill with a T intersection at the bottom. Hit the foot braked and killed the engine. Almost killed Mary and the three boys. Changed the color of the seats. Not a nice time, get accessory brakes of any brand if you have an accessory transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

Running stock brakes on all three T's our here in Western Washington. Up and down the mountains... just not too fast!


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