Firewall Removal - 1916 Coupelet

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Firewall Removal - 1916 Coupelet
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 08:11 pm:

I'm getting ready to transport my Coupelet back to California and I want to remove the engine prior to transport.

The engine that is in it has a starter. It looks like the only way to remove it is to either lift the body or remove the firewall.

After discussing this with my step dad he'd rather remove the firewall. So with that I'll need to remove the steering column to get the engine out also.

Can someone please shed some light on removing both the firewall and steering column.

Thanks,

Philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 08:47 pm:

I would first ask myself why I'm doing this. Is what I hope to gain worth all this work? I typed for 10 minutes trying to tell you step by step, then erased it. I'm not trying to tell you what to do and not answer your question, but, If you're going to restore this car, wait until you get it where you're going to work on it before you start tearing it apart. Yes, you'll be tearing it apart to remove the engine, then having to put stuff back together for transport just to take it apart again to restore it. I just finished my 15 that I bought in PA and took to FL where I removed the engine and trans and starting rebuilding. Everything was moved to SC where I finished it. Lots and lots of the nuts and bolts and even some of the parts didn't make the trip and had to be replaced. If you insist, get the Service Manual and follow it--the first chapter is "dissassembling the car". Good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 09:19 pm:

Don't do it.

PLEASE - have someone who is knowledgeable about early Model T Fords and authentic restoration take a look at your car before you do anything to it.

As has been stressed in prior threads on the Forum: coupelets are rare, highly desirable and much more valuable than the typical Model T Ford. Additionally, you are lucky that your particular car is unrestored and relatively unmolested - even though it does have some condition/cosmetic problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 09:38 pm:

Hi Phil,

I am messaging from the other side of the world from Adelaide, Australia.

As written above, early coupes, couplets, town cars and the like are extremely rare and even rarer to get one in an unmolested condition. So please, please get someone with both Ford 'T' knowledge and a camera to take detailed photos BEFORE you do anything. Please send a copy through to the club and Hap Tucker so the information can be saved forever.

"Document before you dismantle". Just my tuppence worth...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 10:29 pm:

This car will not be restored but preserved.

The engine in this car is incorrect (from a 23 model t). I have all the correct parts (engine and transmission) to put it back to original specs. The firewall has been modified by my grandfather so it's beyond saving and must be replaced.

Unfortunately this car is not 100% original since the engine has been replaced with a newer one. After looking the car over today whom ever did this conversion didn't do a very good job.

For me to start the preservation it requires that I remove this engine. At this time I cannot because the starter flange is behind the firewall which will not allow the engine to slide forward for removal.

So with that can anyone please help me with instructions on removing the firewall and steering column.

Thanks in advance,

Philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 10:44 pm:

Seriously, have someone with expertise in early Model T Fords look at the car before you start taking it apart or discarding parts that you believe are beyond saving.

In a prior thread, you indicated that you had the motor that was originally removed from the car. If I recall correctly, it had a December 1915 serial number.

At this point in time, you are probably better off leaving the later motor in the car and getting it running so you can enjoy the car. Don't take it out until the original motor is ready to be put back in the car.

The easiest and quickest thing to do to a Model T is dismantle it. Some guys take them apart but never seem have enough time to put them back together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 11:17 pm:

When I remove the engine from a early wood firewall car I find it is indeed easiest to remove the firewall. It is about a one hour job if you know what you are doing.

To remove the firewall you must first remove the steering column. This involves removing the timer lever at the bottom of the spark rod so that the column can be pulled out of the frame mounted bracket. Which means that you have to drill out the rivet holding the arm to the rod, if it has not already been replaced by a screw and nut or a cotter pin.

While the firewall may have been modified in the past - if it is original it may be worth saving, because there are so many things that you can learn from an original part, even if it has been modified. The later engine is also not without value, so be careful with it too.

If it was my car I would get it running and have fun with it as it sits, with a good check out / repair of the brakes, steering etc and a new set of tires. It is a wonderful old car right now. Savor it for what it is. It may not be quite as interesting if it receives a less than accurate restoration.

If you take it apart and scatter the parts and then lose interest it will be less valuable and less interesting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 11:29 pm:

Philip -- We have all advised you to document and photograph the car before doing anything to it. I hope you will heed that advice.

In order to remove the firewall and steering column, you just remove all the bolts which are holding them in place. If you'll look at the car, it will be self-explanatory. Both the firewall and the steering column will need to be moved out of the way, as you have already determined. There are two bolts near the top of the hood former which hold the firewall to the body, and 4 bolts holding the firewall brackets to the frame. Then there are 4 bolts holding the steering column to the firewall, and 3 bolts holding the lower steering bracket to the frame. Disconnect the pitman arm from the drag link, and remove the radiator, and disconnect the throttle and timer rods and wishbone, and you should be clear to remove the engine/transmission. Of course you will need to remove the bolts which hold the engine/trans to the frame, and the 4 bolts which connect the rear end to the transmission.

The suggestion above to purchase the Ford Service Manual and follow the instructions therein is a bit of good advice. It's good advice for this step and all the others which will follow. The book is part number T-1, from all the usual Model T parts vendors. (Does "T-1" tell you how important this is?)

Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, June 30, 2012 - 11:53 pm:

Philip

All good advise, leaving the T intact when hauling would be better.

That Ford Service manual as Mike posted is a must before you begin repair or removal of parts on a Ford.

Removing the dash and steering column will leave the front of the body open to shifting/settling, or cracking the wood structure when hauling. Reinstall both when the motor is out, or provide axillary support to the cowl of the body prior to moving.

At a minimum read Victor Page's Model T instructions, free on Google Books, start at page 214 for motor removal.



http://books.google.com/books?id=MB8yAQAAMAAJ&dq=victor%20page%20Model%20T%20for d%20ebook&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q=victor%20page%20Model%20T%20ford%20ebook&f=false


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Sunday, July 01, 2012 - 07:39 pm:

Engine is out, thanks to all who supplied information.

No damage was done to vehicle.
Philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, July 01, 2012 - 08:33 pm:

What's the use?


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