Today's project: making new wheels

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Today's project: making new wheels
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 06, 2012 - 03:42 pm:

Actually, it's been going on for several days. After lots of priming and sanding followed by priming and sanding and then more priming and sanding, yesterday I finished painting the hubs, plates, and drums.




Today's part of the job was priming the spokes. After I finish those I still need to paint the felloes and the hub bolts. A nice thing about all these 100º+ days is that I don't need to bake the parts in an oven. For this job the back yard is my oven.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, July 06, 2012 - 08:33 pm:

Looking good S.J. Keep us updated on the project. I have yet to try this one, so I'm in the information gathering stage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ken bechtel on Friday, July 06, 2012 - 09:17 pm:

Hay Steve! I think your one of the busiest model t guys on the forum. I enjoy reading your posts and seeing pictures of your projects. keep it up. Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Friday, July 06, 2012 - 09:35 pm:

Steve,
I have no experience painting wheels. I thought there was a problem paining some parts un-assembled. Is that an issue?

In regards to Steve posting: I love your updates and videos. I think you bring a great contribution with your humor and responses to others.

Thanks so much!

Matthew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 06, 2012 - 10:22 pm:

This is my first wheel assembly, so I'm learning it as I go. I've read that too much paint between the spokes where they fit together can be a problem, so I'm keeping that to a minimum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Friday, July 06, 2012 - 10:52 pm:

Hi Steve., I would suggest no paint between the spokes. Paint them after they are together. Glen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Harrison,Norco Ca on Friday, July 06, 2012 - 11:19 pm:

Love the mobile drying rack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 01:52 am:

Steve, keep an eye on the spokes out in the sun, Too much heat and the air and moisture in the timber may expand and blister up the paint during the drying process.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gerry .D .Best (NZ) on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 05:52 am:

Hi Folks.
Yes I allways enjoy Steves progress and bits and peaces that he puts on the fourum.I have not long done my wheels its a big job,but looks good when its done.Keep up the good work.
Cheers Gerryde (NZ)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 10:29 am:

Steve and Glen:

I am not arguing with the statement "no paint between the spokes" but wondering what the thinking is on that and why not paint between the spokes? Since I put the plans for the wheel press up on my web site, I have a lot of people ask me questions about building wheels. I tell them most emphatically that I am not a wheel maker and have way less experience than most but I would happily pass on any advice given to me so long as I understand it myself - otherwise I would rather not comment. Is there some actual research done on this or is it comments heard through the ages and now accepted as fact? Enlighten me please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 10:29 am:

Finally a modern use for a dump rake!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 10:44 am:

John

Jim Patrick painted the tenons on his new spokes, and using your press plans, his wheels did not go together easy.

He recommends scraping off any paint between the tenons. Words of experience he had :-)

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/186068.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 01:51 pm:

Sp0okes should be tight with no gaps between the spokes. Paint between the spokes is a soft pad which will deteriorate with time due to pressure. As the paint particles work out it can leave a small space between the spokes. You don't see the paint between the spokes so why paint them? Your just asking for problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 03:19 pm:

Ford didnt prime or paint the spokes till the wheel was put together.
I have read or heard that in the later black car years you could get your wheels with 'natural' spokes. So if that was the case it would have taken more time in painting the wheels and somehow masking the spokes from the paint job on the rest of the wheel.
I wonder if any of the wheel builders prime the spokes or paint them before assembly.
Its probably a toss up if you want to do it. MHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 03:36 pm:

Since Ford sometimes offered things unpainted to allow customers to paint their own color on, I wonder if the "natural" finish wasn't perhaps just unpainted wheels being supplied "in the lead" which meant metal parts primed only. This would be done only to allow then for a customer to put some special color on. I am just guessing here but sounds more plausible to me than a special varnish or clear coat option. I have no proof of anything other than the early years when they did supply things "in the lead".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 06:14 pm:

The adv shows the 'natural' color spoke 21" wheels with painted hubs and felloe, so think that the natural wheels were finished.



Dec 1 1926 Parts and Price List. 21" wheels in black or 'natural'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Saturday, July 07, 2012 - 07:07 pm:

Hey Steve, 1/100th of an inch on each center angle equals 24/100 and there's no way you can work with 1/4th inch too much, or too little, in the center. How thick's your paint? Did you make your own spokes? Have fun!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 01:02 am:

I'm using Stutzman spokes. They've made thousands, so I expect these are OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 01:06 am:

Noah Stutzman is rebuilding one of my wheels even as we speak!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 06:06 pm:

Today's wheel work was in two parts.


The first part was straightening some dings in a couple of the Hayes rims before I get them galvanized.


The second part took a lot longer. Sitting in the shade and listening to the repeat broadcast of last night's PHC, I sanded 17 of those primed spokes, and quit with eight more to go when I felt my hands approaching the cramp-up stage.


I hoped that doing this job once would be enough.


But a close look shows that the primer hasn't filled all the grain. Looks like I'll need at least one more coat of primer before I paint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mattthew G California on Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 06:13 pm:

Looks like progress:-)

I love the photo with your dog! Did your cat take the photo;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, July 09, 2012 - 01:02 pm:

Steve,

If you're trying to fill the grain with primer you're doing way too much sanding. If you sand through to the wood you'll find that the harder wood will sand much more slowly than the softer primer. Meaning, once you hit the wood, the only real sanding you will continue doing is on the primer that is filling the grain. You can repeat that process 100 times and will still have low spots in the grain. Instead, prime and sand no more than enough to just see through the primer without breaking through to the wood. If you still show low spots in the grain, prime again and sand some more, just don't break through to the wood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, July 09, 2012 - 02:27 pm:

I like Fords wording in his advertisement that Dan posted concerning a people who like the natural wood wheel look.
Now I know that I must have good taste since I have natural wood wheels on my 24 Coupe!
But as it now as it was in the Model T's heyday people could custom order certain changes on their car if they wanted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stauffacher on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 12:47 am:

When you assemble the wheels, how much torque do you apply to the carriage bolts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 04:37 am:

Steve,
I'm with Jerry on this you are sanding way too much but first what type of primer are you using and grade of paper are you sanding with? I think you are not putting on nearly enough.

If you sanded the timber down smooth and then applied the correct amount of coats for the type of primer you are using and sanded the primer with the correct grade abrasive paper you should not need to reprime as you should have filled the timber grain and still have primer all over the spoke.

If you did sand through it should only be in small areas and should only then need to put a extra thin coat before the color.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 09:44 am:

Steve, I hope this message saves you from priming and sanding many times over. Try using wood primer, the kind you buy at Home Depot for priming your house or garage. Spray it on with a cheapie spray gun, the cheaper the better since you want a large opening in the tip. I prefer water base, but some die hards insist on oil base. You have to sand once and do not break thru the primer to expose the wood. No matter how it looks to the eye, exposed wood will show the grain when painted. Its the only way I know to avoid countless times of priming and sanding.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 10:43 am:

From your picture it looks like Daisy finished her quota before you did!

When I rebuilt my wheels I primed the spokes heavily then chucked them in the lathe to sand. I used 320 paper and a block to do the job, being careful not to expose the wood. I put the finish coats on after the wheels were assembled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 11:05 am:

David:

If the carriage bolts are grade 5 as they should be then a dry thread torque of 30 ft-lbs is what I do but don't torque them and then clinch them on the same day. Wait a few days and then torque them again. Do it a third time if the torque wrench is still moving on the second application of 30 ft-lbs. Depending on the weather and the age of the wood - you may be leaving them loose if you do it only once. I am doing a set of wheels on my own car right now. I have torqued them twice in 3 days. If they do not move today when torqued, I will then clinch the nuts with a center punch driven into the nut/bolt thread junction at 3 places around the bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 12:37 pm:

I took time out from the wheels to deal with rims. Yesterday I hauled a pile down to Claremore to have them galvanized, and just got home. The minimum charge of $232.80 worked out to about $33.25 per rim. More rims would have been less per rim, of course.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 12:43 pm:

David

John Regan is right on...in Florida, I will tighten at least 3 times over a 1 week period: assemble, tighten middle of week (always get movement on nuts), and at end of week...if nuts move much then, then I give it a couple more days and nuts are usually still tight.

Don't be in a hurry...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 02:16 pm:

Hey the galv looks great. I always like a wood piece to look like wood. In other words, I like a bit of grain showing in the paint. Otherwise it looks like painted metal or plastic. I like that your dog lends moral support as you work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 02:36 pm:

Steve, how long did it take them to galvonize them? I see there is a firm in Sioux City that does this work and we'll be going there later this summer for a short weekend. I like the look!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 02:43 pm:

John,

The carriage bolts, both original Ford and vendors repops are very easily overtightened and break. They can't be grade 5, but likely grade 2. What is the source for grade 5 carriage bolts? I can see why they would be much better and safer.

Thanks,

Ted


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 03:13 pm:

Oh, yes, one more thing. After the wood primer I apply DP 90 to seal everything up and prepare the wheel for the top coat. Here's one after applying DP 90. The wheel is mounted on a rear axle tied down to a ladder covered by a drop cloth. Easy to move around while painting from different angles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 04:31 pm:

Noel, it's a same-day job. The only reason I stayed in Tulsa overnight was that the stuff I left included a few lug nuts and bolts, and they only do little items like that on the night shift. If I have the job done again sometime, I won't take the hardware. When I went to pick up the goods this morning I found that some genius dumped my twelve little nuts & bolts in with a batch of 5000 other small items, and I couldn't wait around all day for a search.

Oklahoma Galvanizing is a location of Valmont Coatings, like Siouxland, so I expect both places probably have the same minimum charge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 06:22 pm:

R.V. Anderson I think is the maker of the bolts that Lang sells as his BQ (Best quality) version. I questioned RV on them and he assured me that they ARE grade 5. I have tightened all 24 of them to 30 lbs dry which is the limit for a grade 5 dry bolt at 3/8-16 thread. I have a very accurate dial type torque wrench with lab calibration sheet since I know that 30 is the max for that bolt and so far I have not had any of them get "funky feeling" on me that indicates they are going to snap but I have in the past had some wheel hub bolts twist off with 25 lbs on them but I have no idea where those bolts came from. The bigger problem with using something other than grade 5 is that I think they tend to stretch and loosen up a bit. I am really being careful here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 05:42 pm:

At last I finished the new rear wheels, mounted tires on the rims, and got everything on the car. Here are the pictures.












Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 05:49 pm:

Steve you keeping dressing that car up and someone is going to accuse you of spending a bunch of money on it!

Those look great!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 05:59 pm:

Looking good Steve!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 07:10 pm:

Beautiful ! !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 08:21 pm:

Real nice job "Dauntless"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 08:50 pm:

Pittyful, juss pittyful ... when you gonna rake those leaves Steve?

Very, VERY nice wheels mister. Youse done good!
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 09:47 pm:

Steve, you are one mucho talented man.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 03:22 am:

Looks good Steve J!
It looks like it is just about ready for Kanab!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 07:30 am:

Wayne, little by little it's getting there, but I still need to get a top on it and fix a few other things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Mullis on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 12:04 pm:

Hey Steve,
Great looking wheels. You have inspired me to rebuild a set.

Let's see some pics of that spare tire mount.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 12:32 pm:

Michael, here you go: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/303667.html?1344048660.


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