Actually, it's been going on for several days. After lots of priming and sanding followed by priming and sanding and then more priming and sanding, yesterday I finished painting the hubs, plates, and drums.
Today's part of the job was priming the spokes. After I finish those I still need to paint the felloes and the hub bolts. A nice thing about all these 100º+ days is that I don't need to bake the parts in an oven. For this job the back yard is my oven.
Looking good S.J. Keep us updated on the project. I have yet to try this one, so I'm in the information gathering stage.
Hay Steve! I think your one of the busiest model t guys on the forum. I enjoy reading your posts and seeing pictures of your projects. keep it up. Ken
Steve,
I have no experience painting wheels. I thought there was a problem paining some parts un-assembled. Is that an issue?
In regards to Steve posting: I love your updates and videos. I think you bring a great contribution with your humor and responses to others.
Thanks so much!
Matthew
This is my first wheel assembly, so I'm learning it as I go. I've read that too much paint between the spokes where they fit together can be a problem, so I'm keeping that to a minimum.
Hi Steve., I would suggest no paint between the spokes. Paint them after they are together. Glen
Love the mobile drying rack.
Steve, keep an eye on the spokes out in the sun, Too much heat and the air and moisture in the timber may expand and blister up the paint during the drying process.
Hi Folks.
Yes I allways enjoy Steves progress and bits and peaces that he puts on the fourum.I have not long done my wheels its a big job,but looks good when its done.Keep up the good work.
Cheers Gerryde (NZ)
Steve and Glen:
I am not arguing with the statement "no paint between the spokes" but wondering what the thinking is on that and why not paint between the spokes? Since I put the plans for the wheel press up on my web site, I have a lot of people ask me questions about building wheels. I tell them most emphatically that I am not a wheel maker and have way less experience than most but I would happily pass on any advice given to me so long as I understand it myself - otherwise I would rather not comment. Is there some actual research done on this or is it comments heard through the ages and now accepted as fact? Enlighten me please.
Finally a modern use for a dump rake!
John
Jim Patrick painted the tenons on his new spokes, and using your press plans, his wheels did not go together easy.
He recommends scraping off any paint between the tenons. Words of experience he had
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/186068.html
Sp0okes should be tight with no gaps between the spokes. Paint between the spokes is a soft pad which will deteriorate with time due to pressure. As the paint particles work out it can leave a small space between the spokes. You don't see the paint between the spokes so why paint them? Your just asking for problems.
Ford didnt prime or paint the spokes till the wheel was put together.
I have read or heard that in the later black car years you could get your wheels with 'natural' spokes. So if that was the case it would have taken more time in painting the wheels and somehow masking the spokes from the paint job on the rest of the wheel.
I wonder if any of the wheel builders prime the spokes or paint them before assembly.
Its probably a toss up if you want to do it. MHO
Since Ford sometimes offered things unpainted to allow customers to paint their own color on, I wonder if the "natural" finish wasn't perhaps just unpainted wheels being supplied "in the lead" which meant metal parts primed only. This would be done only to allow then for a customer to put some special color on. I am just guessing here but sounds more plausible to me than a special varnish or clear coat option. I have no proof of anything other than the early years when they did supply things "in the lead".
The adv shows the 'natural' color spoke 21" wheels with painted hubs and felloe, so think that the natural wheels were finished.
Dec 1 1926 Parts and Price List. 21" wheels in black or 'natural'.
Hey Steve, 1/100th of an inch on each center angle equals 24/100 and there's no way you can work with 1/4th inch too much, or too little, in the center. How thick's your paint? Did you make your own spokes? Have fun!
I'm using Stutzman spokes. They've made thousands, so I expect these are OK.
Noah Stutzman is rebuilding one of my wheels even as we speak!
Today's wheel work was in two parts.
The first part was straightening some dings in a couple of the Hayes rims before I get them galvanized.
The second part took a lot longer. Sitting in the shade and listening to the repeat broadcast of last night's PHC, I sanded 17 of those primed spokes, and quit with eight more to go when I felt my hands approaching the cramp-up stage.
I hoped that doing this job once would be enough.
But a close look shows that the primer hasn't filled all the grain. Looks like I'll need at least one more coat of primer before I paint.
Looks like progress
I love the photo with your dog! Did your cat take the photo;)
Steve,
If you're trying to fill the grain with primer you're doing way too much sanding. If you sand through to the wood you'll find that the harder wood will sand much more slowly than the softer primer. Meaning, once you hit the wood, the only real sanding you will continue doing is on the primer that is filling the grain. You can repeat that process 100 times and will still have low spots in the grain. Instead, prime and sand no more than enough to just see through the primer without breaking through to the wood. If you still show low spots in the grain, prime again and sand some more, just don't break through to the wood.
I like Fords wording in his advertisement that Dan posted concerning a people who like the natural wood wheel look.
Now I know that I must have good taste since I have natural wood wheels on my 24 Coupe!
But as it now as it was in the Model T's heyday people could custom order certain changes on their car if they wanted.
When you assemble the wheels, how much torque do you apply to the carriage bolts?
Steve,
I'm with Jerry on this you are sanding way too much but first what type of primer are you using and grade of paper are you sanding with? I think you are not putting on nearly enough.
If you sanded the timber down smooth and then applied the correct amount of coats for the type of primer you are using and sanded the primer with the correct grade abrasive paper you should not need to reprime as you should have filled the timber grain and still have primer all over the spoke.
If you did sand through it should only be in small areas and should only then need to put a extra thin coat before the color.
Steve, I hope this message saves you from priming and sanding many times over. Try using wood primer, the kind you buy at Home Depot for priming your house or garage. Spray it on with a cheapie spray gun, the cheaper the better since you want a large opening in the tip. I prefer water base, but some die hards insist on oil base. You have to sand once and do not break thru the primer to expose the wood. No matter how it looks to the eye, exposed wood will show the grain when painted. Its the only way I know to avoid countless times of priming and sanding.
From your picture it looks like Daisy finished her quota before you did!
When I rebuilt my wheels I primed the spokes heavily then chucked them in the lathe to sand. I used 320 paper and a block to do the job, being careful not to expose the wood. I put the finish coats on after the wheels were assembled.
David:
If the carriage bolts are grade 5 as they should be then a dry thread torque of 30 ft-lbs is what I do but don't torque them and then clinch them on the same day. Wait a few days and then torque them again. Do it a third time if the torque wrench is still moving on the second application of 30 ft-lbs. Depending on the weather and the age of the wood - you may be leaving them loose if you do it only once. I am doing a set of wheels on my own car right now. I have torqued them twice in 3 days. If they do not move today when torqued, I will then clinch the nuts with a center punch driven into the nut/bolt thread junction at 3 places around the bolt.
I took time out from the wheels to deal with rims. Yesterday I hauled a pile down to Claremore to have them galvanized, and just got home. The minimum charge of $232.80 worked out to about $33.25 per rim. More rims would have been less per rim, of course.
David
John Regan is right on...in Florida, I will tighten at least 3 times over a 1 week period: assemble, tighten middle of week (always get movement on nuts), and at end of week...if nuts move much then, then I give it a couple more days and nuts are usually still tight.
Don't be in a hurry...
Hey the galv looks great. I always like a wood piece to look like wood. In other words, I like a bit of grain showing in the paint. Otherwise it looks like painted metal or plastic. I like that your dog lends moral support as you work.
Steve, how long did it take them to galvonize them? I see there is a firm in Sioux City that does this work and we'll be going there later this summer for a short weekend. I like the look!!
John,
The carriage bolts, both original Ford and vendors repops are very easily overtightened and break. They can't be grade 5, but likely grade 2. What is the source for grade 5 carriage bolts? I can see why they would be much better and safer.
Thanks,
Ted
Oh, yes, one more thing. After the wood primer I apply DP 90 to seal everything up and prepare the wheel for the top coat. Here's one after applying DP 90. The wheel is mounted on a rear axle tied down to a ladder covered by a drop cloth. Easy to move around while painting from different angles.
Noel, it's a same-day job. The only reason I stayed in Tulsa overnight was that the stuff I left included a few lug nuts and bolts, and they only do little items like that on the night shift. If I have the job done again sometime, I won't take the hardware. When I went to pick up the goods this morning I found that some genius dumped my twelve little nuts & bolts in with a batch of 5000 other small items, and I couldn't wait around all day for a search.
Oklahoma Galvanizing is a location of Valmont Coatings, like Siouxland, so I expect both places probably have the same minimum charge.
R.V. Anderson I think is the maker of the bolts that Lang sells as his BQ (Best quality) version. I questioned RV on them and he assured me that they ARE grade 5. I have tightened all 24 of them to 30 lbs dry which is the limit for a grade 5 dry bolt at 3/8-16 thread. I have a very accurate dial type torque wrench with lab calibration sheet since I know that 30 is the max for that bolt and so far I have not had any of them get "funky feeling" on me that indicates they are going to snap but I have in the past had some wheel hub bolts twist off with 25 lbs on them but I have no idea where those bolts came from. The bigger problem with using something other than grade 5 is that I think they tend to stretch and loosen up a bit. I am really being careful here.
At last I finished the new rear wheels, mounted tires on the rims, and got everything on the car. Here are the pictures.
Steve you keeping dressing that car up and someone is going to accuse you of spending a bunch of money on it!
Those look great!
Looking good Steve!
Beautiful ! !
Real nice job "Dauntless"
Pittyful, juss pittyful ... when you gonna rake those leaves Steve?
Very, VERY nice wheels mister. Youse done good!
Garnet
Steve, you are one mucho talented man.
Looks good Steve J!
It looks like it is just about ready for Kanab!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Wayne, little by little it's getting there, but I still need to get a top on it and fix a few other things.
Hey Steve,
Great looking wheels. You have inspired me to rebuild a set.
Let's see some pics of that spare tire mount.
Michael, here you go: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/303667.html?1344048660.