Overheating Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Overheating Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 01:40 pm:

For a guy on a budget, what's the quickest fix for a "minor" overheating issue? (Other than a water pump...grin)

Drove about 2-1/2 miles on a flat yesterday to a friend's house and just before pulling in, the overflow puked a small amount, maybe 1-2 cups worth of coolant. I run about 50-50 mix.

Suggestions?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 01:45 pm:

Have you recently filled the radiator? If you over-filled it a little, that was just the radiators way or getting rid of unnecessary coolant. If you did just fill it, I'd drive it some more and see what happens.

If not, there's been a TON of info on flushing the block and the radiator without spending hardly any money.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/285681.html

Worst case is that the radiator just flat out needs to be replaced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 02:03 pm:

Be sure your timing is advanced enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 02:11 pm:

Thanks Seth, yes as a matter of fact, had just topped it off. I bet that's what it was. I'll take it for another run tonight and see what happens.

And thanks for the additional link. I may give it a flush anyway since I'm still learning about this rig.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 02:17 pm:

Ricks...interesting you should mention that. Carol said she thought it sounded different than the day before when we had it out. On the trip back, I adjusted the timing and didn't notice any overflow on our return.

A combination of factors?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 02:59 pm:

My engine is stock and use a Holley NH Carburetor. I run on coils. I do, however have Ruckstell.

On July 4 ran in a parade. The route is both uphill and downhill at the speed of a fast walk. I use Ruckstell low and pull the parking brake to the neutral position. I use the low pedal and with the engine at a fast idle, move just fast enough to keep up. If I get too close to the persons ahead, I use neutral or the brake. When going uphill I leave a large space between my car and those ahead so that if possible I only need to push the low pedal down and hold it there without much band slipping. Anyway the entire course is about 1 or 2 miles. From there it is two miles to my home most of it is uphill. I drive at normal speeds in high the way home. On July 4 I got the motometer just up to the "average summer temperature" level. When I parked it in the garage, it gurgled a bit but it did not spit out. All that is normal. I run the 50 50 coolant at the level of the Ford imprinted at the front of the radiator.

I am running a Brassworks radiator which is about 10 years old. I have no water pump.

I am convinced that most of the overheating problems are radiator problems.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Dysart - SoCal on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 03:35 pm:

Looking at the overheating threads over the last few years, I would have to say that most overheating "problems" aren't problems at all. Most are caused by over-filling because the (generally new) owner doesn't understand the differences between a T cooling system and a modern one. In these cases, the owner mistakenly interprets the normal process of the system expelling excess coolant as overheating. Throw in mistakes in operation, like timing, and more than 60% of the threads are resolved (like this one).

Looking at the remaining "complaints" it seems that about half are fixed with a good flushing of the entire cooling system. Beyond that, I agree with Norm, the few problems that are left in cars with stock cooling systems are problems with the radiator itself.

My 16 touring is running a full stock '26 motor (iron pistons and all) with a round tube radiator that is at least 55 years past it's last re-core, if it was ever done. The car cools fairly well but it does over heat a bit on hot days when climbing a nearby 5%+ grade that is almost 4 miles to the first stretch that is close to level. Running the hill at 30+ mph at WOT will lose some coolant. But that seems reasonable to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 07:29 pm:

I think there is a "pool" of original radiators that hold water just fine but have long ago ceased to function as heat exchangers. They look pretty good and are totally original. They sell at swap meets for about $150 to $250 and T guys jump at them after giving them a visual inspection and the owner swears it doesn't leak. These go on a restored car and within a few years the car is done and it overheats. The radiator eventually is found at fault and replaced. The old radiator goes back to a swap meet and the whole cycle repeats. I confess I bought and sold one of them for the same money some 25 years ago and it truly did not leak. I didn't know much back then but now I feel kinda bad for the guy that bought it. He seemed to think it was fine for his use. I told him it didn't leak and it really didn't :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 08:04 pm:

Thanks for the feedback guys. As always, very much appreciated from this newbie....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 08:05 pm:

You can also have a water jacket that is full of scale and crud Danial but it's something that you can easily clean out yourself with a shopvac and a log screwdriver or dental pick. I'd replace the head gasket after doing the job though. It takes as long to drain and disconnect the radiator connections and pull the head as it takes to clean out the water jacket - it's a nice job on a cool rainy day!

Regards,
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Wednesday, July 11, 2012 - 08:58 pm:

I was shocked at the rusted bits-o-gunk I retrieved from my block with a magnet on a stick and one on a stiff wire. Flush well and next time you have the head off, so some magnetic fishing.

Lots of those chunks are to big to exit the little drain-cock at the low point of the radiator. Do a Steve Jelf style block purge with the radiator hoses removed. May be a great time to replace tired hoses too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 01:32 pm:

Hey Daniel, did it spit up any more after you drove it again?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 03:14 pm:

I'll be doing all of the above tomorrow....looking forward to getting my hands dirty again.

I haven't driven yet Seth since that happened. I will definitely have it out tomorrow though after I give it a flush.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 03:43 pm:

Quote; "A combination of factors?" Quite possibly.

The water / coolant will expand as it is heated. If the radiator is too full, some will be pushed out the overflow. This is what is meant by finding it's own level. If you top it off again, it will push it out again.

Running with the timing not advanced far enough will also cause higher engine temperatures. We use the heat energy produced by burning the gas-air mix to drive the engine. I don't remember the exact breakdown, but for simplicity lets say that 1/3 of the heat produced pushes the piston down, 1/3 is dissipated to the cooling system, and 1/3 goes out the exhaust pipe. If your timing is retarded and combustion occurs after the piston is already going down, then less energy is used there and must be dissipated through the cooling system and the exhaust. Driving with the timing retarded will make the temperature go up, and the exhaust manifold glow red while the car seems to be pulling a sled behind it. And yes it will sound different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 03:47 pm:

Daniel, a quick check of the fins can also be done by feeling to see if they are loose from the flues, if they are then no amount of flushing will cure the problem, have fun, KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 04:41 pm:

Danial,
Don't forget that running your gas/air mixture to lean will also cause it to run hot.

Also I know where you live and you probably don't need 50/50 antifreeze for freeze protection. The more antifreeze you used the less efficient it is as a heat transfer fluid. You still want the corrosion protection and there are other options for that. Bottom line, your engine will run cooler with plain water and maybe a 25/75 mix would provide the corrosion protection and the freeze protection you need and be a better heat transfer fluid then the 50/50 mix.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brockman on Sunday, July 15, 2012 - 11:45 am:

I am helping a friend work on a 28 (I think).
It is over heating. We even put a radiator from a 302 Ford on it to trial and it overheats on us!
He says his timing is correct and has had the head off already. (any 'checked' the water pump).

Note: new bands were put in the tranny, he says a friend thinks they could be too tight.

Thoughts??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Sunday, July 15, 2012 - 06:50 pm:

Donnie, No bands in a 28. That's a model A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Sunday, July 15, 2012 - 07:01 pm:

Back in the 60' I had a TT with a tall radiator that overheated.

My Dad and I took the radiator to Harry's Radiator Shop in San Gabriel Ca. I think his name was Harry Trepanier. He took the core loose from the tanks, cleaned the core and dipped the core in his solder tank thus reattaching the fins to the tubes.

After reassembling the radiator, the overheating and leaking was gone.

I wonder how many radiator shops know how to do that today?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Sunday, July 15, 2012 - 08:17 pm:

Danial, here's a question for you. Do you have the long fan hub or the short one? This is the long one.

This is the short one.

The reason I ask is that if you have the long one, you also have the 'cheapie' radiator Ol' Henry decided to put in some of the 26/27's that only has 2 rows of cores. They didn't work out well and most of them got replaced, over the years.
My 27 didn't boil but it did run hot when I got it. The radiator had some other 'issues'. When I put in the modified engine the heating problems got worse, do I bought a new ($800) Brassworks radiator. I couldn't even install it because the fan was in the way and I had to find a short fan hub to get clearance between the fan and the radiator. If you have the thin radiator, it might be in your best interests to look around for one with the 3 row core in the long run. I'm sure there are guys here that can address this issue better, this is where I found about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, July 15, 2012 - 08:28 pm:

Dennis, here're pics of mine: (can you tell which one I have>)<p>


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 06:44 am:

Yup, that's the short hub, you have the 3 row core so proceed with trying to clean out the cooling system. Another thing you could do is to wiggle some of the core fins with your finger and observe (very closely) to see if they are still firmly attached to the core.
I just realized there are 2 topics on this and that's why I couldn't find the pictures I just posted in the other topic.


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