Rear leaft spring bushings

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Rear leaft spring bushings
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Thursday, July 12, 2012 - 09:54 pm:

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to replace the rear leaf spring bushings on my 16 touring. I had to pound out the old ones from the leaf spring and pound in the new ones. There is no way I'll be able to get these into the perches - without a lot of hammering - and I don't think the u bolts will fit once they're in. What am I missing here??

Thanks,

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Thursday, July 12, 2012 - 10:15 pm:

just ordered the drill bit to drill out the correct holes for the u bolts. still wondering how to install the bushings into the perches????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Thursday, July 12, 2012 - 10:35 pm:

Push them in with a vise, after taking off the spring is the easiest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Thursday, July 12, 2012 - 10:49 pm:

John ...I have them in the spring. It's getting them into the perches I'm worried about.

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Thursday, July 12, 2012 - 11:40 pm:

Use a big C-clamp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 01:20 am:

Use a bolt and nut to pull them in. A 5" bolt, with a washer under the head, then the bush and then put the bolt through the perch. As you do the nut up the bush will be pulled into the perch. No pounding damage! If/when you run out of thread, put some more washers on and go again.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 01:34 am:

It's getting the old ones out that's been more of a problem for me - but after cutting the old bushings with a hack saw blade in one or two places they are much easier to pound out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 07:02 am:

Thanks guys - I'll give both ideas a try. BTW, this reamer/drill the vendors sell. What is the size of the drill bit? - guess I could just pick one up locally rather than order it????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 10:11 am:

Michale

The vendor reamer is a china 14.5mm twist drill, with 1/2 shank to fit a power drill.

Size is good for new or NOS shackles, if your hangers are worn and undersized, a smaller dia. drill would be better to help make the fit less wiggly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 11:35 am:

I've noticed that the steel in the modern replacement bushings is not near as hard as the originals. Don' know about the shackle pins as I don' think I've got any originals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 12:25 pm:

Thanks guys...how so these get lubricated? I see on the front perches an oil port.

Is it worth buying new u bolts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 10:22 pm:

The port hole in the perch, and the main leaf is for a spring loaded flip top oiler.

Oil can these oilers every 200 miles :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 11:06 pm:

Dan...My rear perches don't have holes for oilers. I guess the oil goes in through the rear of the u bold and finds it's way into and around the bushing as I look at it. Funny, my front perches do have the oilers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 11:26 pm:

Michael

Oops, forgot your T is a '16.

The shackles or hangers on the early cars have the oilers in them. A U shape shackle is later, your T should have early type hangers with built-in oiler fittings.

The front perches on your '16 must have been changed to later ones.


Early Mae West type, and a modified later perch, but shows the brass oiler fittings used in '15-'16 type hangers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 11:39 pm:

Dan...now i'm confused. So, my front perches should look like the photo you posted? And, what about the rear?

My front perches have u bolts and oilers at he top. Is that not correct for a 16?

I believe I have a set of brass oiler fittings - sort of bought them by accident.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 08:37 am:

Michael,

The style in Dan's picture of the grey front axle is what you should have on a 1916 model year car.

Here is the list of changes from the encyclopedia section of this web site:
OILERS
(Front axle tie rods, etc.)
11-20-07 T218 screw-in brass oiler adopted.
07-11-11 T283 steering spindle connecting rod oiler, two required
11-19-12 Design changed from Bowen 4-N to Zerk oilers.
03-07-13 Changed back to Bowen 4-N design.
01-08-14 Drawing changed to note that the same oiler was being used for T267 front and rear spring hangers and T283 spindle connecting rod oilers.
07-24-14 Spindle bolt redesigned to incorporate a built-in oiler
07-16-15 Spring hangers redesigned with an oiler in the perch and in the lower hanger.
07-11-16 Oilers removed from the hangers and press-in oilers added to the perches. (There was considerable overlap in production with combinations of old and new types being used.)
09-06-16 “Brought drawing up to date with oilers as they are being made by changing the design from 4N Bowen. The new type was the Winkley.
09-30-16 T2944 spring oilers. These were used on the springs, replacing the hanger oilers. They were Winkley 1-G “Special Winkley Oiler.” They appear to have a spring-loaded ball as a “door.” Push the ball down to add the oil and then the ball seals the hole. They were zinc plated.
11-29-16 Changed from the above Winkley to the man-hole style, also made by Winkley, and were initially raven finished but later Zinc coated. This oiler was also used on the commutator.
12-13-16 Changed to Winkley oiler #3, Style R.
02-08-17 This same oiler now used on the spindle bolts.
03-15-18 No longer used on the commutator.
07-03-19 A larger oiler was now used on the spindle bolts.
08-07-19 This larger oiler was also used on the tie rod bolts.
04-03-22 T2944-A3 “flip top” oiler now specified. These were made by Bowen and were zinc plated, and were used until the end of Model T production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 09:05 am:

Michael -- The perches in Dan's picture of the gray front axle are 1919 and later perches. A 1916 perch should have holes through it for the wishbone to mount into. The shackles and oilers in Dan's picture are the type you should have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 10:07 am:

All...for some reason, I'm still a bit confused. Please excuse my ignorance. I'm trying to get this correct. I've included photos of what I have and what I took off the car (16 touring) if something else is correct or an improvement, I'd rather use. Especially in light of the recent thread of tragic accident.
Also, I realize that I have the u-bolt on in the wrong direction.front perch and u boltrear u boltrear perch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 10:30 am:

Michael

The 'proper' perch and spring hangers (shackles) for a '13-'18 should be the 'figure eight' shackle with oiler hole, using brass oilers screwed into the each opposite face of the hanger.

The perches should not have oiler holes.

Your front perch is the '17--'19 style with oiler hole

Your rear perch seems correct.

Your hanger in the first photo, the U style is for '23-'27.

Your 2nd photo hanger is not Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 11:43 am:

Another easy way to install bushings is to put a piece of large threaded rod through the bushing and perch with washers and nuts on both ends, and tighten them to press the bushing in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 02:42 pm:

so with the 16 touring, is this what I need to be 'correct"? http://www.modeltford.com/item/3813-40B.aspx

And, these to go with them: http://www.modeltford.com/item/2718SA.aspx

would I need the brass oilers on the front and rear?

Sorry to seem so ignorant here...but I am.

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 03:18 pm:

Michael

Worry none...in the Model T world, parts can be right&wrong for any particular model year. The many branches assembling cars used transitional parts, so you can have a mismatch of parts and still be correct for your T.

Here is the club encly on shackles.

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm#sprshk

The 'Figure 8' shown in your post would be correct, but at some time in 1916 the perches with oiler hole showed up, so those would use the 2-piece riveted type shackle.

The famous Rip Van Winkle 1917 in Bruce's big book is of that era, front and rear perches and hangers aren't matched.

So your '16 could have the oiler perch up front, esp if the main leaf in front has the oiler hole, that would mean the type shackle should be without oilers, as the leaf spring and perch would have the cup oilers.

Your rear spring main leaf may not have an oiler hole in the leaf, and that would mate with the non-oiler perch now in place, so that the shackles or hangers would need to be the Figure 8 with the brass oilers in the opposite arms of those hangers.

Hope this is clear? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 04:44 pm:

Thanks Dan..I 'think' I'm getting it.

Actually, I had to order a new main leaf, because a couple of the springs on the old one were broken.

The new main leaf doesn't have any oiler holes. So, I think at this point, my plan will be to order the figure 8 shackles for front and back: http://www.modeltford.com/item/3813-40B.aspx

and then add the brass oilers to them :http://www.modeltford.com/item/3817.aspx

I guess I'll just put a couple oilers in the holes that are on the front perches as well...otherwise they will just be open.

One last question....there are holes in the bushings. do they need to line up with the holes in the perches, or with the addition of the threaded brass oilers it wouldn't matter?

Thanks so much for all your patience.

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, July 14, 2012 - 04:53 pm:

Gals to help, you got the idea now.....

The bushings have holes to align with the holes in the perch, that way the oil goes into the oiler cap, thru the perch hole and into the hole in the bushing to run oil around the shackle.

Your main leaf did look new, so that is correct for shackles with oilers. If you wanted to 'look authentic' on the front perch that now has that hole, you can fill it with something, solder, JB weld, ect, and paint over, no one would know, that would disguise the later perch.

What the goal is to match the shackle (spring hanger) type with the type of perch and main leaf. Lubrication means is different between the styles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 08:24 am:

One way to get them in....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bruckzone/4353656312/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 10:20 am:

Erich's picture is about like mine would be if I had a picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 06:49 pm:

I would like to point out the shackle in the photo that Dan posted is in backwards!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 08:25 pm:

Larry...what is backwards about it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 09:24 pm:

Thanks Larry

You do point out the errors...should have known better, the 'bust' up and 'hips' down on Mae West :-)



Correct shackles on this real nice '09


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