Model T Fatal accidents advice on how to avoid

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Model T Fatal accidents advice on how to avoid
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 01:03 pm:

I have only been driving Model T's since 2008

The Ken Meeks accident story is sobering

I have been a professional pilot for 40 years and learn all I can to prevent a mishap

Besides checking proper tire pressure and checking my wheels for tightness and no shimmy, brakes working well is there a simple check list that will prevent (or reduce) mechanical accidents?

What are the most common causes of mechanical accidents in the Model T?

I do not drive over 30 mph and have open tops, no seat belts

I know I can not prevent another driver from hitting me, just looking for the most important items to check that may fail on a Model T causing a mishap


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 01:20 pm:

One of the most important checks is to be sure the spokes are tight. In 2011, I discovered the spokes on my 1926 coupe front passenger side wheel were loose after I ran out of gas. As I was waiting for my companion to bring me a gallon of gas, I did a walk around and noticed a light brown powder on the felloe which indicated dry rot. I, then grabbed the spokes and discovered they were loose. I pushed the car a little ways and sure enough, the spokes clicked as the wheel turned. I made a spoke press based on John Regan's plans and rebuilt the wheel. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 02:20 pm:

The MTFCI has a safety checklist for tours. It covers most, if not all, of the things to look for and correct if out of spec.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 02:24 pm:

That MTFCI checklist helped me to find and correct several issues on my car before the tour last year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 02:35 pm:

And make sure the hub bolts are properly peened in the rear wheels. One of our local guys here just lost the rear wheel while driving...the hub bolts had been installed only with blue thread locker.

A make sure the safety wire is in place on the radius rod. I think the afore mentioned safety checklist does address this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 04:06 pm:

Of course, there are a hundred little things that can result in a potentially serious accident. Both national clubs (and many local clubs) have check lists that should be gone completely through before a new T is driven much. Most of that stuff, once checked, should be good for a long time. But the list should be gone through occasionally (how often depends upon how often and how much you drive the T). Besides, many things like cotter pins and safety wire can wear and break off.
The two main mechanical causes of preventable serious accidents are wheels and the combination of front end and steering.

Wheels must be strong and tight. Wood wheels do not need to spin true and straight, but there is a limit on how much wobble is acceptable (about 3/8 inch). Wheel bolts must be and stay tight. They need to be peened, there is too much flex and give in a wood wheel for lock washers. And remember, wheel bolts DO occasionally break. Inspect the wheels often. As Jim P says, look for any sort of dust collecting around where wood meets metal. It indicates that something is moving that should not be. Listen for that clicking as the car rolls. I often walk around my running Ts and give each wheel a good shake. I have found several developing problems that way well before they became serious and were still easy to repair.
A few words in defense of wood wheels and maintaining the cars authentic character. As one of the few people left that has been involved in serious racing speeds on an old dirt track, I can somewhat authoritatively say that (good) wood wheels are much stronger than most people think they are. They were not used for more than thirty years on automobiles because people then did not know better. But wood wheels CANNOT be run loose. When things start moving around where they are not supposed to, the wood wears away fast, and they become dangerous, fast.

Probably the most common cause of serious mechanical failure accidents is loss of steering control. Many threads have been posted on this subject lately. ALL components of the front end and steering gear must be in good condition and reasonably tight. The geometry must be right. A good T should not be squirrely. If it is, find out why. Get experienced help if you need it.

The third item would probably be the rear end. MAKE SURE you do not have Babbitt thrust washers. They often fail and can result in a loss of brakes. Once rebuilt, there is not a lot you can do to prevent an axle breaking and losing a wheel.
Personally, I do not favor the safety hubs. While there is some definite improvement in safety, that benefit is small due to axle breakage is fairly rare (yes, about a dozen members of this forum can post photos of their car missing a rear wheel). But I also know of a few safety hubs that caused breakdowns that could have resulted in an accident.

Also, how you drive DOES make a big difference. Watch out for the other guy. Expect them to do something stupid and you be prepared. Keep an eye out for escape paths. Move toward the direction of your upcoming turn early. Make them wonder what you are doing and claim your turn lane early.
Pull over to allow others to pass, often. But do so where you can look back and be very careful pulling out back onto the road.

And as I usually close,
drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Magedanz on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 04:17 pm:

David,
I know you are asking about avoiding mechanical accidents, but you are already doing the other absolutely most important thing: reduce your speed ("I do not drive over 30 mph"). A Model T simply does not have the ability to slow and stop with modern traffic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 04:31 pm:

To be 100% safe with a T you have to sell the car.
But you can follow what these folks are telling ye and be as safe as possiable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 04:41 pm:

"Pull over and allow others to pass." This I try to follow as much as I can when driving slower than the speed limit. I think one of the big causes of accidents is impatient people trying to pass a slow vehicle when they shouldn't.
When I am driving a regular vehicle and I pass a slow driver who has pulled over I give the driver a quick toot of the horn or a wave of appreciation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 05:00 pm:

Jim - hope those spokes are made right or johns plans are accurate - or you might want to sue someone!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Hughes, Raymond, NE on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 05:10 pm:

Gary,

I have driven a lot where people need to pass me, and I try to pull over if there is an opportunity. A wave of appreciation is welcome, but a honk of the horn I don't ever know if it is "thanks" or "get the h*ll off the road."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 07:17 pm:

Recently John Regan recommended something that often isn't mentioned about tightening hub bolts. Torque them to thirty pounds. Drive awhile and torque them again. Repeat. When they no longer turn to reach thirty, then do your peening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

I see a trend as my 100 year old car is beginning to speak to me. I have put my list together for my 1916 touring. Here goes:

1. New wheels, spokes and rims and GOOD tires.

2. Rebuilt rear axle new axles, gears and bearings,thrust rings, seals and perch bushings,shackles, springs, and aux brakes.

3. All new bushings, king pins and front wheel bearings, springs and tight tie rods, pitman arm etc.

4. Over and under wishbone, tight ball to crankcase connection.

5. 5:1 steering gear.

6. Better lighting, brake, turn, headlights.

7. Correct alignment of front end.

8. Modern glass.

9. Regular lube and maintenance.

10. Good dependable engine, forged crank and a good lubrication system for the engine.

I can tell it is going to be costly, but what is a life worth?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 09:02 pm:

Every Model T has a forged crank - and a good lubrication system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Monday, July 16, 2012 - 09:26 pm:

Dave, I also am (was) a professional Pilot...B-25&26, RC121 and G Model Constellation, KC135, C123, C47 etc.

This photo shows a sneaky potential problem. Close you eyes and try to imagine what it would feel like to have the steering wheel in your hands and it's not connected to anything...you're driving along a levy, drifting right, with a 30 foot drop to the river on your right side. Or you are on a narrow road, your T is drifting left, and there's an eighteen wheeler coming at you and you can't steer...All because you didn't install that little 6/32 screw.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 01:44 am:

That screw alone is reason enough to recheck the checklist once a year! (Or more if you are Dean Y.)
I would also add, life isn't worth living if you do not do things you truly enjoy. A few years ago, near Sacramento CA, a grown son was killed while taking a nap in his parent's home. Where in the world should one feel safer? A plane crashed into the house.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 11:08 am:

Thanks Royce, I'll scratch #10 off me list!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 11:47 am:

All very good advice above. I also:

1. Drive it as if it has no brakes at all.

2. Plan my trips to avoid heavy traffic.

3. Always keep in mind that I'm driving a 94 year old vehicle and to not press my luck!

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 02:22 pm:

Ford marketing and manual writers said it well back when the Ford was new!



1909 Ford Price List and Instruction Book..pg.24


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