New web page: Thrust washers

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: New web page: Thrust washers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 12:19 pm:

The problem of rear axle thrust washers comes up often, many times in the form of a question from somebody new to the T asking about one of the symptoms. Rather than retyping an explanation every time somebody asks, I've made a web page explaining what the thrust washers are, what they're supposed to do, some of the symptoms that indicate trouble, and what can happen when they fail. I didn't get into the rebuilding process. That's for another page. Everybody's invited to check it out and tell me if I got anything wrong or omitted any important information.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html

Also, thanks to Dan Treace for letting me use one of his great pictures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 12:46 pm:

Great web site, Steve...and not just for the thrust washer page.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 12:54 pm:

Here is a couple more photo your welcome to use or not. Gives an better idea where exactly the thrust washers are located in the rear end.
Jim




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 03:25 pm:

Excellent! You have done a great service here. We now need to get that link out there. Maybe Chris could post a link directly from the links portion of our site under the title of "Important! Why check your thrust washers"?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder - Houston, Texas on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

Sure wish you guys would call them BRONZE - brass is a poor bearing material


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 03:49 pm:

Excellent website, Steve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Stinchcomb, Trumbull, CT on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 04:07 pm:

Great idea for the web site. For some reason the font is crazy big with Google Chrome but okay with IE. Either way, excellent information.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 04:38 pm:

Steve,

Great idea!

Good news the 1909-early 1915 cars already used a bronze thrust washer (part #2528). The bad news you don’t know if it was replaced sometime in the last 90 or so years. If it was replaced sometime after 1915 or so, the dealer and most shops would have used a Babbitt washer. And a few folks today are rebuilding rear axles with the NOS Babbitt washers. If you have a rear axle with the NOS Babbitt washers would you please let us know so we can track information about it? They routinely do that with airplane parts so they can tell people – check it every 50 hours, 100 hours, or 1000 hours etc and replace if worn etc. It would be great to be able to document if there was a noticeable relationship to mileage, age, abuse (running it low on oil etc). I.e. they start failing after 100,000 miles or 30 years or whatever. I would guess it is a combination of several things rather than one major item that drives when they fail. I may not be around to find out the results -- but it might help the grandkids or future owners down the road.

You will not know what type of thrust washer you have unless the person who rebuilt the axle can tell you or unless you open it up and look.

I think it would be great if we could share some simple ways to detect the worn thrust bearings before there is an actual failure and loss of brakes (or brake shoes. Note in the case Steve shares the brake shoes were hit by the rear hub bolts but I’ve seen Model Ts without the rear brake shoes – which would mean you wouldn’t hear any noise or see rubbing on the hub bolts.) If we jack up both rear wheels (chock car securely etc.) and pull back and forth (in and out) on the left rear wheel – how much movement is acceptable and how much would indicate it needs to be repaired? (Assumes the movement is in the rear axle shaft and not lose spokes or lose hub on axle both of which are also not good.) If I understand Glen Chaffin’s instructions -- when properly rebuilt the axle would not have noticeable side play. But if it has less than .005 is that ok? Or less than .010 or what about .020 etc? What is a “reasonable guideline for an axle with a babbitt thrust washer and is it the same or less than the guideline for a bronze thrust washer?” And is it perhaps the end play more than the millage and age that causes the babbitt thrust washers to crumble?

There are also a couple of other good photos of the babbitt thrust washers at the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/295678.html?1339633408 don’t let the title stop you – it quickly changes from new owner looking for windshield glass to good photos of thrust washers dying or that have died (including your current web site photos.)

Again, great work Steve! Thanks for making it easier for all of us.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off --


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 04:51 pm:

Hap

Good info.

Had posted this before, but to maybe help down the road when my T's leave.....a little plate is fixed to each rear end that has the old babbitt replaced. Modern rear ends have little tags on lube type if Posi axle, or ratio tags, so its a common place to see a tag. Might work :-) to identify years from now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 05:28 pm:

Dan,

I like your idea and thank you for sharing it again. In addition to future owners, it could also be helpful when we get older and go, "Was it the 1915 or the 1918 that we replaced the thrust washer in back in ...." Never mind that's too convicting...

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 05:36 pm:

Steve,

Not only does your dog take great pictures he also comes up with great ideas. Please tell him thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 07:01 pm:

Is there any way to check which type of washer is in you differential .... without complete disassembly ?

1. Flashlight and tiny mirror through fill plug ?

2. Partial disassembly of differential case while still in place on car ?

3. x-ray vision and/or incantations ?

Thanks
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 07:21 pm:

I've wondered about that myself. Using the medieval method (theorizing without actually looking), I would guess no. Unless we hear from somebody who's actually checked, I guess I need to look into that myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 08:05 pm:

Would this work? Would have lots of applications, tranny, etc.
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/diagnostics/digital-inspectio n-camera-67979.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leming on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 10:26 am:

I will identify both of mine with tags - BRZ 2011
I think this is a great idea. Hobby stores sell small pieces if sheet brass in differing thicknesses. I use it for all types of shimming, but it makes great tags for things like this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 06:29 pm:

Gary,
Look at the reviews on that thing. Everybody that liked it was looking in walls and under decks. Everyone that tried to look in a motor with it said it didn't work!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 06:57 pm:

Well phoo. I'd better learn to read the reviews.
There are others like it but the price was attractive. Now I know why.
Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 07:32 pm:

I normally prefer Northern Tool as I think their quality is better. Shipping faster also. Any way they have several bore type scopes at various prices. The one for under $70 that hooks up to a lap top is interesting.


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