Rear axle play question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Rear axle play question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 09:31 pm:

So , after pulling the rear wheels, and removing the dust cover, I have no play in and out on my axles,......
but I do have up and down play,
how much is normal???
I took apart a spare differential and it has shim's ,..mine did not,
I had some 2" ID tubing (bearings fit perfect)
and the OD fit tight into the axle,
now I have no play......
is this OK >>>>??

2" EMT pipe




bearing in

I drilled through for the grease fitting\popjpeg

shim in axle


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 09:42 pm:

Shawn

If what is there is a piece of plain pipe instead of the Hyatt sleeve?

Without the Hyatt sleeve design with its V split, and locking nub....then that wouldn't work for me.

That piece of pipe will be easy to remove after the Hyatt roller bearing spins it in the axle housing. The bearing load on the outer is the weight of the back of the car on the axle, the best fit bearing is needed there for sure.

IMO, remove that pipe and install the correct Hyatt sleeves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 09:56 pm:

thanks Dan
I have ordered the sleeves,and new bearings/seals etc
always better to use the right parts
but would like to drive it this weekend.
hope it will hold up????
worked great on the test run
it had way to much "play" before
I will pull it apart again and check for movement
PS the old differential I pulled apart to look at has pipe in it
how long it was run like that I don't know


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 10:07 pm:

Hap l9l5 cut off

The Hyatt sleeve is hardened and has the proper hole to keep it from turning in the axle housing. It is critical to the safe operation of the car. And you want good bearings, sleeves, and axles. Your vendor should carry the same parts -- I use Lang's for illustrations because they have good pictures and like most of the vendors use the original Model T part numbers. See http://www.modeltford.com/pl.aspx?t=s&v=2509QL&page=1 and note they come in righ side and left side as well as the earlier cars take a different part.

If you are really low on finances there is a good chance that your Hyatt roller bearing closest to your ring and pinion are in much better shape than the ones near the wheels. But if the axles are also worn then at some point you need to replace axles and bearings or switch to a different style bearing that takes the load off of the axle such as the Safety full floating rear hubs see: http://www.modeltford.com/item/2508SF.aspx

Again -- using a tube would be dangerous. If the axle brakes -- you can stop the drive shaft with the transmission brake but the spider gears in the rear axle will allow the wheel with the good axle to continue to roll forward while the broken axle shaft will spin backwards. You can check that out by jacking up both wheels and turning one wheel forward and watching the other rear wheel rotate in the other direction. I used to love to do that as a kid. I don't think we had TV back then....

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 10:07 pm:

Shawn

Anyone's guess what got put in Lizzie over the countless moons that have passed to keep her running!

Glad you have the new hardened sleeve to be going in there. Concern would be to get that pipe back out of the housing, the Hyatt sleeve is split and expands to fit super tight, and the nub locks into the housing end, the Hyatt sleeve can't spin, they are normally tough to get out!

Like any bearing, the race must stay put, and the bearing runs on the fixed race.

The front spindle bearings are also problematic, if the inner race cup spins, the larger inner bearing can wiggle and that is also a source sometimes of Ford wandering... :-) I like to rough up that area to be sure the inner race fits real snug that a puller is needed to get it off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 10:12 pm:

Shawn,

Which bearings did you order? The vendors will normally not recommend the reproduction roller bearings for use on the outer ends of the axle see: http://www.modeltford.com/item/2508.aspx where they say:

“Axle shaft roller bearing, 4 per car. Close to original, however, this reproduction does not have the oil grooves on the rollers so it is NOT RECOMMENDED for outer roller bearing use. We recommend using either a good used bearing or the modern style part# 2508ORB. (NOTE: The outer bearings should be packed with wheel bearing grease (part# 2833GR) in the same manor as the front wheel bearings.)”

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 10:34 pm:

Hi Dan
I thought about haveing to remove it before I put it in.....I knew I would not be lucky enough to be able to leave it in :-(
I have a slide hammer that widens the "claws" out
my big question is why it did not have any shims to begin with , I could move the axle freely up and down 1/4 "
Hi Hap
there is no visable wear,
just the bearings where "loose" in the axle houseing

I should have pulled the axle apart when I got it
it has run for a yr like that
never trust other peoples work I guess

All parts will be new as soon as they arrive
I am hopeing for one days use out of it first


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 10:40 pm:

Hi Hap
I have boxes of used bearings (love auctions)
I will check to see witch one Dad picked to order
and if the old one are better I will stay with these,
thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, July 19, 2012 - 10:43 pm:

Shawn

Someone probably left the Hyatt Sleeve (shim) out when they placed the bearing...have seen such things before.

This axle when opened had the '70's version made in Germany solid roller bearing, but no bronze thrust, just two steel plates! Yikes, what some 'mechanics' will do!



"Look Pa!" "No thrust bearing, must be the new fancy Ford "



Just steel on steel....oh me.


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