Dual Wishbone bracket on ebay

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Dual Wishbone bracket on ebay
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 08:33 am:

Pictured below is a dual wishbone bracket on ebay (item 380456329532). I saw mention on the Ken Meeks thread that a dual wishbone may have prevented his accident, but I had never heard of one until then. Is this what you all were referring to? In all my years on ebay, I have never seen anything like this come up for sale. Is this a new accessory? Was it available back in the Model T days? I have no affiliation with the seller and will not be bidding. Just thought it was interesting and wanted to share it with those who, like me, had never seen one and may want it. Jim Patrick



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Button III (Chip), Lake Clear, NY on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 08:42 am:

Looks like a decent unit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Button III (Chip), Lake Clear, NY on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 08:43 am:

I would like to see a bolt or pin through the wishbones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 08:45 am:

Looks like early and late wishbones combined with a clamp. This would be good for an early show car/driver. You could have the late wishbone off for shows and on for driving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 08:50 am:

The Ken Meeks accident was not caused by a wishbone failure. In fact the wishbone on the car had no part in the accident at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 09:11 am:

That looks somewhat like the one on my 1919 hack.
Unfortunately I do not have a picture of it at work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 10:07 am:

I put one on my '14 Touring and am very pleased with the result. It was an easy install. I plan to do it for all of my early cars as soon as I can find enough late wishbones with bad balls. I certainly don't want to destroy a wishbone that is otherwise good!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 10:08 am:

A reinforced wishbone hasn't kept Gene Carrothers' '12 Torpedo from winning at every car show.


On our way to HME 2010


rdr
Dunsmuir, headed north


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 11:05 am:

Jim,

Some answers to your questions:

Q: Is this what you all were referring to? A:Yes

Q: In all my years on ebay, I have never seen anything like this come up for sale. Is this a new accessory? A: Not really. This type accessory was offered back in the day. And the E-bay seller / Model T hobbyist has been producing and selling them on e-bay for over a year.

Q: Was it available back in the Model T days? A: Yes. The Model T Speedster hobbyist says in his advertisement “This front dual radius rod support clamp is a reproduction of an accessory that was offered to add an additional radius rod to the early style axle that has the radius rod on top of the axle.” And of course there were many other companies selling a similar product.

Unless you have a T with a starter, you often do not know that much about T starters (like the need to remove the Bendix before trying to remove the starter). The same is true for the double-wishbone accessory. If someone has a 1917 or earlier style above the axle wishbone their car may have had the accessory when the obtained the car. My Dad had two unrestored 1915s and the both had a double wishbone (one of them had lost one of the lower tubes but the bracket was there).

From the posting "Wishbone Flex" at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/300260.html there is a note: "One other interesting note – Bruce made a comment that it might be possible that a ‘double wishbone support” came either from the factory and/or as a dealer installed accessory. One was installed on the Rip Van Winkle 1917 Ford that had less than 27 miles on it when the photographs were taken. I had asked about that on the forum but I cannot locate the thread (old age or too many threads?). He also shared the photos on page 279 of his book and in the CD of a wishbone brace and commented, “The accessory brace has been seen on many Fords from 1917 to 1919 and could have been a Ford-supplied item.” Does anyone have any documentation that would support that Ford supplied those type of braces? I’ve been looking but so far I have not found documentation to support that. But the fossil record seems to point that it may have happened."

In your case your “Improved Fords” came with the later "under the axle wishbone." That was the correction Ford made to an accident he experienced and that was posted back in 2005 on the thread “Wishbone Safety” at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/31231.html . Ralph reposted it on Ken’s accident discussion and it is reposted below for someone reading this in the future. Note Joseph Galamb was one the primary Ford engineers who helped design the Model T Ford.



The T’s are safe to drive but will probably never be as safe to drive as one of Consumer Reports 5 star safety rated vehicles that have front & side airbags, have been tested and do not have a tendency to roll over easily, do well in the emergency maneuvering test, and have four wheel brakes, etc.. But the faster you drive a T and the larger the pot hole, higher the sidewalk curb, or deeper the sand you hit the more force that will be exerted on the wishbone. Could a Model T with an over the axle wishbone go through sand and dirt – yes! The photo below has been posted before (thank you to the person who posted it. The complete photo is printed on page 7 of Robert Casey’s “The Model T – A Centennial History” which is a great book on the evolution of the Model T and how it was produced. Tell your Santa you would like one... I didn’t see it in the Lang’s on line catalog – but I most likely just missed it. Available at Amazon so I’m sure the vendors also have copies - See: http://www.amazon.com/Model-T-Centennial-History/dp/0801888506/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342790823&sr=1-1&keywords=Robert+Casey+Model+T+ford



I would probably be going a little slower -- but they appear younger than I am. You can also see the leather strap around the front axle and frame to control rebound. So this isn't the first time they have gone 4-wheeling. And of course the 1909 racers crossed America and there were not many improved roads to drive on and the railroad ties were a lot of pot holes in a row. But on a bumpy sandy road you also usually went slower than you would drive on a better smooth surface road. I still remember when they would grade the dirt road out in front of my Grandmother’s house. It was so much nicer to ride in the bed of the F-2 Ford pickup than six months later.

In the tragic case of Ken’s accident I believe we all can learn many things from it. If you have not had a chance to read through it, I would recommend you see the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/299388.html For some who read that thread they may decide to drive a little slower [caution – another common cause of Model T accidents is being rear ended – and there are signs/reflectors, advice on where to drive (like avoid the busy roads during rush hour etc.) that are helpful for avoiding that problem.] For others they may decided to install the later below the axle spring perches and wishbone [they are an original Ford replacement item that the Ford dealer would have installed if you damaged the front end after 1920ish or so when all the old style parts were used up]. For others it may be to have any accessory spring perches tested for shear strength before using. For still others it maybe to obtain and install a double wishbone accessory. Hopefully for most readers they will not decide to park their T but rather find the combination of things they can do to make driving it reasonably safe and enjoyable.

I still have not had/taken the time to read the thread about Ken’s accident update. I’ve printed it out and carried it in my briefcase for the last week or so but work has just been crazy (I’m off today – I met my hours yesterday). To avoid high jacking this thread, if I have any thoughts that have not already been addressed I will add them there.

By the way -- if I'm the only one that reads my long postings I should stop "spamming" the forum. If any of you would like to see these go away -- please send me a PM and let me know or if you want to see them continue please let me know. I will assume the others just skip them (I do that too on many of the posting such as which is better “A” or “B” type of ignition, bands, oil etc.).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 11:24 am:

Keep 'em coming Hap. Your informative postings are educational, well written and a pleasure to read. If you're not careful, you may be the one we look to for information as we once looked to Bruce McCalley before his recent and untimely passing. Thank you. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Holcomb, Watertown WI on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 11:28 am:

Hap,
You are an amazing source of information! Personally, I like they way you break it down and explain the details.
I read all of your lengthy descriptions and or opinions! Thank you!
Brian Holcomb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 11:48 am:

Jim & Brian,

Thank you both for the kind words. To keep from high jacking the original thread if others would send their “stop spamming” or “keep posting” notes direct to me that will be less embarrassing (especially if the “stop posting” comes way out on top). You can click on my name and bring up my profile and my e-mail address is the third line down or click on http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profil e=hap_tucker-users and it brings up the same profile. Or you can use the Private Message feature if you prefer which is the last line on the profile and that way I will not have your e-mail address. I’ll continue the research and thought process either way, but it is nice to know if I should post it or not.

Bruce can never be replaced, I along with a lot of others really miss him. But I do think we can honor his memory and the work he did by keeping his excellent information updated for the future. We are slowly working on forming a team to do that (see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/111749.html ) and have some great volunteers willing to help out with that project. If any of you are interested in joining or supporting that effort and I have not already gotten your name, please send me an e-mail or PM (Private Message) with which area you would like to help with (i.e. Larry Smith is already down for the 1913 Ts and 1925 roadster pickups and each of us has areas we like more than others.) . In the meantime many of you are discovering additional details as your research your car. Some such as Steve are writing a book on the 1924-25 coupes. But most of us will discover something we can contribute now or in the future. After all with over 15,000,000 potential fossils to exam, there is still so much to rediscover and document. Not to mention what is in the Benson Ford Archives, Detroit Public Library, University of Windsor Ford Archives, etc.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 01:24 pm:

I have seen the castings in person, they are nice and heavy, and can be polished if you like. You simply use a modified later wishbone and clamp it on your early wishbone. It is a strong setup and worth the money. He was at the Long Beach swap selling them today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 01:41 pm:

I'm not sure what diameter a wishbone arm is but for the sake of this discussion, let's say it is 1" diameter. You wouldn't have to wait for an old worn out wishbone to come along if you got some 1" round rod and cut it to length then heated and flattened the end of each arm to the correct thickness and drilled and dished out the holes on the end of each arm like on the original. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 01:50 pm:

I just re-read the listing. There is a "buy it now" price of $50.00 on it and they also offer the weld-on rod ends for the upper rod (for 7/8" rods) for $10.00 a pair. If you go to www.ebay.com and type "Model T dual" in the search box, the auction will appear near the top of the listings. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 01:58 pm:

Hap - No, you are NOT the only one who reads what you call your "long winded postings", and I personally would not refer to anything you ever write as "spam"!

I could send you a "PM" as you suggested, however, my thought is that maybe my poorly worded response on the forum to your "By the way" comment will encourage others to respond and let you know how much your postings are appreciated.

I for one, appreciate the time you take to comment in the forum in the manner that you do. Yes, some of your postings are what you call,...."long winded". So are many of mine, however, in my case, it's because I tend to write pretty much like I talk, which is certainly too much and could probably be called "rambling". In your case however Hap, some of your postings are only "long winded" because of the unique manner you have of continually including web addresses (in blue) for additional or corroborating information to support or add to so many of the subjects that you post about. I have often wondered how on earth you find the time to do this so consistently???

Because of what I just tried to explain in such a cumbersome manner, I feel that your posts so often contain much, much more than the posts of so many of the rest of us and as such are such a wealth of information and I for one have come to realize that I can learn so much from reading your posts in detail and I hope that you NEVER change the manner in which you post on this forum.

All that to say, I don't know how you find time to do as much research and writing as you do, but just keep on doin ' it! And I'm sure that there are many others that appreciate your efforts as much as I do Hap, and I hope they all express that here on the forum,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 02:08 pm:

Hap, Just as Jay in California took the time to catalog his fantastic accessory collection and the all of the great period photos he has posted, you may want to consider cataloging your posts according to the subject matter so they can be referred in past forum threads like an encyclopedia. It's ashame that all of your old posts are so difficult, if not impossible to find. If you could somehow make a guide as to how we could find them for future reference it would be a great help as they ALL contain useful information which required alot of time on your part to research, compile and post. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 02:51 pm:

This is my home made Dual Wish Bone
Toon
757R
760R
761R


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 07:38 pm:

On my old '13 I had a set of Western Auto accessory radius rods from the teens. They looked as if someone had taken 1" angle iron and using a home forge beat them into the shape they wanted. Simple and worked great.

For the '13 I'm putting together now I have found a set of Western Auto rods again. These are a little more refined than the earlier Western Auto rods. Still made of angle iron but fit up much more nicely.

The earlier ones were set up with the open side facing up in a "V". I guess that is so Sherlock Holmes could inspect the trapped sludge and determine, by pollen stuck into the grease, which counties in England you had toured.

This set fits much better and may be easier to keep clean... maybe!



The other set I had not only was set as a "V" but ran straight from the bottom of the axle to the ball end of the rods, with nos "S" bend like the new ones have.

I don't know yet if this will clear my tie rod and steering (RHD) but am anxious to see.

If the photos don't show for you hit "refresh".

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David C Jahnke on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 07:50 pm:

My 1918 T has the original high wish bone, and I'd like to add a brace as well. The car has Hassler shocks (the beehive spring type) installed on the front. The bolt for the perch through the axle doesn't look like it is long enough to allow for adding something to the bottom of the axle. Is there some solution, or do I have to go back to stock front perches?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 07:54 pm:

On my last '13 I had Hasslers. You use the same perches, swap them left to right and reverse them just like in the above photos of my axle. They are not long enough for a later radius rod eye, but they are long enough for the flattened end of an angle iron... at least mine were!

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Brownsburg,In. on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 07:58 pm:

Dave, Dave Huston told me about using driveshaft nuts to replace the bottom nuts. Works great and you can still cotter them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David C Jahnke on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

Thanks. That is a great help.

Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 10:46 pm:

Guys please keep in mind you can double them or even triple them, but don't over look a worn ball or ball socket on the oil pan or tie rods . They can still fall out then you have catastrophic failure, someone mentioned on another thread a while back all the front end components should be inspected frequently. I agree because each piece works in unisome with the whole Front end assembly, not an area you want skimp on.... Always use matched parts and make sure they are good parts...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 11:49 pm:

David,

You are correct, the pre - 1917 (or so) spring perches don't have enough extra threads to add anything else. You can start the nut but there is not enough threads to install a cotter pin, as Terry Horlick's pictures show.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 02:06 am:

Royce, I do not think my photo shows that. If you use the thin nuts there is ample thread on the perch to place a cotter pin. Look closer at my photos, I haven't put the perches back to stock position yet so they haven't been tightened down. You can see that there is space between the bottom flange of the perch above the axle and the top of the axle. Once the perches are tightened down that space will be gone causing the amount of thread protruding under the axle to be greater and the cotter pins will find a home.

If a castle nut can't go on far enough to cotter you can grind it down a bit... just don't heat it up red hot (not likely) and don't make it too thin to hold the perch in place.
(I remember a prosthodontics professor solemnly warning a student about cutting away tooth structure..."Son, stop just before you go too far".)



On the above photo on the left the perch isn't seated all the way, once it is the cotter will go. On the right you can see a difference in nut design, this is not the nut I will use!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 08:35 am:

Terry

Adv from Sears catalog with similar angle iron brace to the front perch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 12:52 pm:

And as mentioned in a previous thread Lang's and possibly other vendors have a wishbone reinforcement for sale in their catalogs see: http://www.modeltford.com/item/2733S.aspx

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vance Naumann on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 05:12 pm:

I just received one of the new wishbone braces from Lang's and I am not that happy with it.

I'm going to try the ebay bracket.

Vance


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 09:31 pm:

Vance,

Before you install it, give Lang's a call. They have been great at either correcting an issue or allowing us to return a part for a refund in the past.

They and many of the other vendors are open to suggestions on how things can be improved.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 07:59 am:

The two new ones I have look like the "Angle Radius Rod Support" in the Sears catalog. Bet they are worth more than .69 these days!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Bohlen on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 09:17 am:

Dual wishbone support bracket is offered by Antique T Motor Sports. You can view their line of parts at; http://stores.ebay.com/antique-t-motor-sports-llc Items do not have be acquired off ebay. They advertise in the Vintage Ford magazine. You can order by email or phone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 09:44 am:

Here's a link to five different period after market dual wishbones I posted here last year.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/225479.html?1311970547


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 10:13 am:

I like Toon's solution a lot. All it takes are a couple of pieces of pipe and a welder. It's simple, easy to do, and should work well. Good idea!


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