Here is a photo from the E-Timer efficiency test conducted last month. Battery only operation has raised concern by some folks, especially without a charging system. The E-Timer operates the original coils significantly more efficiently than the standard system does so I thought it would be fun to see how long a tiny 9V transistor radio battery would run the engine.
The 26 Runabout engine in the background was operated for over one half hour using the 9V battery held by my son Chris. We ran out of time so not sure how long it would have actually run the engine. The battery voltage was still 8V when we stopped the test if you zoom in on the Simpson 260 meter so it may have even made it a full hour. Thanks to Bob Jablonski for volunteering his car to run the test.
A standard car battery is estimated to power it for days of continuous operation non-stop without charging. The secret to improved efficiency is only firing the first spark, the one responsible for combustion, with the full energy as the stock system. Subsequent sparks are still fired and the points still buzz similar to the stock ignition system but they are fired with significantly less energy to conserve battery life. This has no impact on engine performance because the energy of only the first spark mainly determines combustion quality.
Anyway, it was a fun test and it was kinda neat to see the big engine stop suddenly when the tiny 9V battery clip was disconnected.
The problem with this product is not its efficiency. I personally believe that it's a great product. I also have no problem with its relatively high price. My resistance derives from the fact that it doesn't belong on a 100-year old automobile as it alters one of the main components of a unique, blacksmith-age ignition system that even after a century works as intended if maintained properly. So even if you recruit a bunch 'a girl scouts, dressed super neatly, and they all smile into the camera and nod in awe about the efficiency and ease of operation of the E-timer, you are still not addressing the problem. What you have is a product for which only a fringe market exists.
Mike, great work! I would love to know how long you could idle with a 9v and how long you could drive with on a 9V. I would expect your drive time would be significantly shorter as your RPMs are greater and you firing more often. I would love to have the opportunity someday to try your E-Timer. Hopefully I will run into someone who has one and will let me drive theirs or borrow it for a day two. I like how you went through the effort to integrate it.
I just do not understand why people think they need to BASH Mike and his E-Timer. If you do not like it state it nicely once and move on. It is not like he is putting a Chevy small block into a car.
Bernard, It is called free enterprise, it has been going on for a millennium or so, and will continue well beyond our passing. I also see you must not be proud T owner as your profile picture doesn’t show one. But there are a few imports.
I guess I am one of the ' Fringe " market. The girl scouts can smile at me all they want and I'll smile back. I don't know where to get red natural rubber inner tubes. So I use what ever I can get.
I run a Lane Warford ahead of the hi speed gears in the rear axle. I do this because if my truck were limited to the original 7.25:1 gears, I would have half the cars in the county behind me just going across town.
I have a 12 V battery because I can hide it under the seat and not on the running board where it would make it very tough for me to ascend to the heights necessary to get my other end in the seat. I also have an alternator that also powers the 125V inverter that powers the lights for the Christmas Parades.
I have L E D stop and tail lights including a hi stop light and turn signals. Also have BIG mirrors in hopes that I can avoid anyone from climbing their vehicle into the bed of my truck.
I also have a fuel pump because some of the roads here are in excess of 10% grade. The fuel pump feeds a Stromberg OD-1 Carb that really improves the performance.
After saying all of this, I'm proud to say I am happy with the eTimer I have. Works great and smoother operation than I was able to get with the ford system. As long as it keeps working I'll keep using it.
So, with all of the things I have changed, the exterior changes that are noticeable are the rear lights and mirrors. Those are safety upgrades. Under the hood, the carb and the alternator are the most evident. The e Timer isn't even noticeable.
Sincerely
Jim Weir
Jason & Jim:
My day job has taken most of my free time for "serious" T fun.
I plan to ride using a fresh 9V "transistor" battery soon & see how far & how long it will last.
We disconnected the wiring harness magneto wire from the magneto post & attached the 9V battery harness using alligator clips to the car's magneto wire & ground. Powered by using the ignition switch on the magneto position. I'm sure after many miles & hours on the small 9V battery, I will not be stranded for lack of power, simply turning the ignition switch to the right to use the regular 6V car battery/charging system will get me where I have to go.
I'll will to document the voltage drops at timed intervals.
The report will go first to Mike Kossor & he will go over the data.
Thanks to Mike & his son Chris.
Bob Jablonski
Looks like the nucleus of a really great ad by Duracell!
What do you mean Peter? "The T keeps on Ticking"
Great to see your Son there Mike!
I guess if you are unable to make the magneto work you can buy a boatload of 9 volt batteries?
The magneto is not too complicated. Even I can make it work. I don't see the point.
Royce
I have no magnets on my flywheel, so please tell me how to make the magneto work with this scenario.
My magneto died and i lack resources to fix it, the etimer does sound like a good fix until i can scavenge enough parts to build another engine (my block has about a dozen faults that you guys would torch it for but i still drive with it! Shows these old fords are tougher than you give them credit for)
Royce:
I have a working magneto in my car as I have stated in previous posts.
Your negativity is getting very old.... & that's a fact.
Bob,
You seem to exist only to attack me? Must be some other thing you can do with your free time.
Royce:
Don't worry, I won't waste my time.
Dave,
In the opinion of some, your car should have no excuse not to have a magneto. WE all know there are some T's out there that have had the magnetos removed from them LONG ago, probably even before we got them. But some people don't, won't, or can't see that.....
William,
I can't think of anything that can go wrong with a magneto that could not be fixed for much, much less than the price of an E timer, and in a weekend's time. The magneto, if inoperative, simply needs to be fixed. It is neither complicated nor expensive. Once fixed it is good for a lifetime. Every Model T I own or have owned needed something done to the ignition to make it work right. None have ever cost the price of an E timer to run perfectly, with a fully functioning MAG.
If someone rebuilt the engine and did not know how to make the magneto work that person probably screwed up the rest of the job. If the mag doesn't work it is just one of several things that are wrong with your engine.
"anything that can go wrong with a magneto that could not be fixed for much, much less than the price of an E timer, and in a weekend's time"
Cool story bro' i bet you forge your own magnets too, In your forge that only cool people have.
Kep,
Not sure what you sell them for on your island but around here its hard to get 5 bucks apiece for magnets. How many would you like?
i do not believe on magnets that i cannot see! i am not cool enough for that.
Have a chance to run the E-Timer on the 9 volt transistor battery tomorrow........ plan to leave home 7 am for points south thru the Pine Barrens & to the other side of civilization. Report to follow after Mike Kossor releases my data.
Later ..............
Bob Jablonski
It's got to be obvious to everyone that already owns or is considering an e-timer that Royce doesn't see any reason for them to exist. It is just as obvious to me that Royce will not change his mind. I just wonder if Royce has figured out that he's not changing anyone else's mind either.
As far as I can tell, the e-timer appears to be the most partisan topic in this group, even more so than disc brakes, LED lighting or water pumps.
But other than the waste of electrons, the rhetoric from both sides doesn't really cost much. But it seems to have gotten to the point of tilting at windmills.
I'm going to keep reading the first hand reports of performance and experiences with the e-timer. It's easy enough to ignore the rest.
Eric,
Please attack me if you want for liking Model T's that run right and are reliable without needing a battery. I can take it.
Hi Royce,
That's my point. This is just another hobby to me. I haven't "attacked" anyone here (even when personally insulted by an over-excited zealot) and I don't see any reason that anyone here should attack anyone else. I know that I will probably not get the chance to meet most of the people here in person, but I would rather that they act civil enough to let me form a favorable opinion of them. The most effective exchanges of information are based on mutual respect. Some people here are better at that than others.
I'm here to learn, and when possible to inform. I prefer objective over subjective, though sometimes subjective is valuable too. I value your knowledge more than your opinions, although I recognize that they come as a package deal. But it's all good. As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any reason that we can't all get along.
Respectfully,
Eric
Eric,
I try to be factual and don't try to insult anyone. I think disabling the ability of a Model T magneto to function properly is a spectacularly bad idea, especially when it costs $450 to do so. Does this make me a bad person?
I will try to help anyone keep their Model T running well, and have the expertise and parts in stock to do so.
Very well said Eric, you have much better wording then then I would like to use!
the thing i dont get is the model t timer is a VERY simple instrument. if you cant seem to make one work ,then i dont know what to tell you.
you dont have a magneto but your worried about originality of the car and making it "look" stock?
i dont have a mag in my car cuz it was taken out 45 yrs ago, so i run a distributor. works great, its mechanical and i can fix it on the side of the road. and it did not cost me $450
last weekend i was at a swap meet, i picked up a flywheel with all the magnets and clamps for free when i bought a good generator. yep those mag parts sure are elusive suckers.
the fun of a model t is that its old, all its parts are old, yes i run a T generator, and a mechanical cut out, and i use the stock transmission brake, and yet my car has yet to explode into a large mushroom cloud.
if you want modern conveniences on your car go buy a new car, ive seen so many people who like the idea of having a model but handle what they are so they change everything unique about it.
Can you tell me the advantage of Ford's built-in magneto, timer and buzz coils over a single high tension external magneto, like a Bosch DU-4 or other of the era?
A predictor of reliability is parts count:
Timer with cam and contactor, and linkage for rotation.
Four buzz coils with multiple parts.
Coil box with pressure contacts and studs and nuts.
16 magnets, screws, retainers, etc.
A coil ring with spring contact.
vs.
An external magneto with timing linkage and attached to the engine with 2-4 bolts.
When the external magneto fails, it is removed and replaced with another in just a few minutes. If it were not real reliable, a spare would be no tougher to carry than a spare buzz coil.
Henry carried the obsolete buzz coils into the T, and invented the flywheel mounted magneto to avoid paying patent royalties. There was no technically sound reason for it.
rdr
Coburg b&b
Hi Matthew.
Check out what it would cost to retrofit a stock model T engine with a new distributor today. With a new timing cover, the distributor, coil, new plug wires, etc., the e-timer price starts to look reasonable in comparison.
You can't really compare money spent long ago to the prices of new stuff today. My recently purchased Ruckstell cost more than three times what my father paid for the whole freshly restored car.
Personally, I dislike distributors on a Model T. But I don't think much less of the people that run them. I know that they are an improvement over the traditional commutator (accurate dwell, consistent timing between cylinders) and I also know that a commutator is good enough for stock and nearly stock T engines. It's really just a matter of personal choice. As long as we both enjoy our cars, there's no reason judge each other. Using a dizzy or disc brakes or keeping everything stock doesn't make anyone a bad person.
On the other hand, cutting up an original T to build some sort of modern street rod does make somebody a bad person.
I think what is perhaps missed most in all of this is that Mike's son, Chris, is involved in the testing. He looks happy to be so, or he just poses well. Always cool to see a youngster getting into the world of the T.
Mike I think you need to switch to energizer. I'd like to the the bunny in the passenger seat in a commercial.
There are guys who value their cars as automobiles, to be respected for their age and place in history; while there are other guys who value their cars as test beds for experimentation and extensions of their personality.
What I don't understand is the posts expressing the desire for Royce to shut up, or otherwise denigrating him and his opinion that the Ford system works beautifully when it is given only base-level attention. How many times have we seen posts pleading for advice on how to get some gimmick, sold by some vendors, to work? "My car has a True Fire and it won't run..."? "I did XYZ to my car and now it won't go more than 20 miles an hour...". "how can I get my car's "sealed" water pump to stop leaking?". "My alternator charges too much! (or not enough)".
When Ron the Coilman patiently posts fact-based knowledge on the Ford ignition system, few people tell him his posts are "...getting old...". There is a wealth of knowledge to be had here by newbies and old timers alike. By what I've read, Royce usually stays pretty much on topic, discussing the merits of the subject, while others offer personal comments in return.
you dont need a new timing cover for a distributor. go check out the texas T dist. i love bosch magnetos, i have a splitdorf magneto conversion front timing plate that i plan to run in a speedster, but all this electronic stuff just over complicaes the car and doesnt belong on something that old.
i love accesorizing model ts, but in a period manner, most if not all accesories are uneeded but come in handy in some cases. but part of what makes a model t so awsome is that its all mechanical and primitive and yet i still get 20+mpg and it gets me to work as reliable as a swiss watch.
I like the Model T for what it is, for the way it was designed, for the uniqueness of its magneto and ignition system, and for the fact that it makes my heart beat faster in excitement that I can to some part experience what people 100 years before my time experienced. It's a window in the past, a time that we otherwise just read about.
I personally don't like distributors in a Model T, but I do not point fingers toward people who use them, as they are at least period correct. Yes, back in 1919 you could buy a Bosch America distributor for your Model T.
What you could not buy is a computerized device that mimics a Ford commutator combined with a working human brain and a working human finger operating the timing rod. An e-timer is a dishonest device, dishonest to the period, dishonest to the Model T, dishonest to the genius of Henry Ford, and dishonest to the old car hobby. The same is true for disc brakes on a Ford but here at least the argument of safety can be made. That does not apply to the e-Timer. For that reason I hope the next gimmick won't be an e-transmission for the Model T that mimics a real Ford planetary transmission combined with the working human brain and a working leg.
You can sign or you can move your lips to Karaoke. People who use an e-Timer engage in Karaoke, whereas the rest of us are indeed singing, with our own voice. It's a bit like the hard ass motorcycle guys who have no idea on how to kick-start that real Harley and thus now sit on the couch pushing a button firing that fuel-injected engine. I despise those guys. Where I come from, yo need to be able to kick-start your bike or you are not riding it. If the Ford ignition system is too burdensome for you so that you need a computer helping you set the timing, maybe a Model T is not for you . . .
Some people state their opinions as if they were proven fact - in spite of evidence to the contrary - and that gets old.
Again, what disadvantage is there to the Bosch DU-4 or equivalent external high tension magneto? It is not original to the Model T, but was on the Model K.
1911 Motor Supply Catalog
rdr
Coburg b&b
I am simply amazed that guys like Mike can create something like the E-timer. Electronics have always boggled my mind, so to invent a device that keeps the car running and is small enough that it will fit in the timer case is impressive in my eyes.
To me, it's no different that running other modern parts that are unseen. My sedan is pretty much period correct, with the exception of modern improvements that were put in with the engine rebuild: AL pistons, stainless Chevy valves, Turbo 400 discs and a modern seal on the timer. If I was a purist, I would have stuck with cast iron pistons, etc.
Would I purchase an E-timer? As ingenious as it is, the answer is no. As I understand it, the car cannot run on magneto with the E-timer installed - please correct me if I'm wrong. The magneto is one of the unique talking points of the Model T when I show my car to other people, 95% know nothing about old cars, let alone Model T's. They can hear the difference in how much more smoothly the engine runs and how much more power it has when I switch from battery to mag. Now, if the E-timer could turn off when I switched it over to mag, I might consider buying one.
If an E Timer worked like a Bosch magneto I would have a lot of respect for the idea, because a Bosch magneto does not need a battery. The Model N and Model S were limited in their range by how many batteries you could carry - the same problem the E timer suffers from. That is why a magneto in a Model N, R S is such a great idea, it makes the car much more reliable.
On the other hand a Model T already has a magneto. That is why so few Bosch magnetos (and all the other brands) were sold for Model T. The T ignition system was reliable as hell.
"Can you tell me the advantage of Ford's built-in magneto, timer and buzz coils over a single high tension external magneto, like a Bosch DU-4 or other of the era?"
A burned out primary or points that no longer allow current through the primary circuit will render the engine inoperable with a high tension mag. Same for a failed secondary. With the low tension system you only drop that one cylinder and we all know that is easily fixed.
Your predictor of reliability has flaws. I noticed you convienently left off the contacts within the distributor portion of the mag as well as the bearings, drive coupling, drive gear, etc., as if those never caused problems. I opened to many airplane mags for you to push that off as fact. The parts count in the Ford system largely kept the problem isolated to just one cylinder. The car could often limp home on 3 and I promise John Q. Farmer would rather buy a new coil unit from the Ford agent than a new DU-4. Just saying.....
What data do you have to back up that flat statement, "reliable as hell," Royce?
You should understand Preventive Maintenance. What PM schedule for the Ford Ignition timer, buzz coils and magneto do you have for your cars?
How often do you recommend cleaning the mag post of debris if running cotton or kevlar?
You won't have any of those chores with the E-timer. An external magneto requires a squirt of oil.
The Ford Ignition is probably the weak link in T reliability. I say "probably" rather than a flat statement because I don't have any hard reliability numbers. You just have to look at parts count to get a good estimation.
Gary, debris on a mag post can cause it to fail, and without a battery the car is dead. Same goes for the timer parts, which are kinda' high wear items. How many aftermarket improved timers were produced, and how many Ts kept using Ford timers after the first one failed? How many swear by Ford timers today?
And you should understand maintainability, Gary. Engine R&R to replace an open wire in all those little coils is not easy peezy.
rdr
I still run a Ford timer that I trued up in the lathe. I can pull an engine, change the field coil and recharge the magnets, stuff it back in the car in eight hours. The field coil seldom fails without some outside influence such as someone trying to remove the starter with the Bendix still attached.
As far as maintainability, I don't see the average Joe Blow back in the day as being able to install a replacement DU4 by himself. Coils, timer, wiring harness, etc., however are another matter that even the farmers wife could change.
Wow-
I need Gary and Royce at my place. You guys are magicians! Pull the engine/trans,replace the coil ring,set the gaps, check all the magnets for cracking and suitable magnetism, re assemble with new gaskets and no leaks all for less than the cost of an E timer! Just been through that exercise with my T. To get my T running again on Magneto will soon have taken countless hours and will far exceed the cost of an E timer.
"An external magneto requires a squirt of oil."
Lets get serious. Do you really believe that is all that is required to ensure it continues to operate as designed? You better let Slick and Bendix know that because they are under the impression that these need opened up for a conditional check annually. Slick even has you do a major check every 500 hours. I'll bet they would be glad to hear it isn't necessary.
Yeh, Gary, just about every year I had to replace good parts in the S-6RN Bendix mags on my old Bellanca, thanks to for-profit Airworthiness Directives. I hated Bendix back then. It didn't help they were our competitor in avionics.
Sure, HT mag parts wear out, but I bet they don't need near the attention a Ford timer does.
rdr
Coburg b&b
Without a battery, my Silverado is dead too... so far, that hasn't been a problem. Today's batteries seem to have a pretty reliable track record and long life expectancy.
I don't understand why that is such a big concern???
You can argue all you want that an electronic ignition system is better than a buzz coil system. But you cant argue its Model T.
Vince
To me, it is about originality and about the experience of running those original systems. If I had a car that originally came with a high tension magneto. I would run the high tension magneto. On the T's, I run the original system, complete with all flaws, real or imagined. On my A, I run the original distributor, complete with points and condenser and manual spark advance, although there are electronic ignition and automatic spark advance 'upgrades' out there. On the '67 Mustang, I run points and condenser in the distributor, although like the A, the technology exists to change that. No matter what the application, I prefer mine to be original and I accept those original systems for what they are. To change any of that just seems wrong. To argue whether a high tension magneto, distributor, or e-timer is more reliable than the T's low tension magneto is moot to me, although I feel the the original system is pretty dang reliable in it's own right. Folks should run whatever they feel is right for them, and if that's an e-timer, by all means, run the crap out of it. But please don't make it sound like every T owner that wants to run the original system has to have a PhD in electromagnetic theory and carry a HCCT with him when he goes out for a drive to take care of all the 'frequent attention' the original system requires.......'Cause it just ain't so.
It is easy to prove the Model T design was superior. Look at the 1925 - 27 Chevrolet, which had a typical Delco distributor and battery ignition. Compare how many 1925 - 27 Model T Fords remain in service today with their original ignitions.
Then you need to consider that Chevrolet production from 1925 - 27 was equal to or more than Model T production in each of those years. In fact Chevrolet made hundreds of thousands more cars in 1926 - 27.
There are perhaps 1000 Model T Fords on the road from that era for every 1 1925 - 27 Chevrolet that survives today. The reasons for high survival rates of the 1925 - 27 Model T are simple.
1. The Ford ignition system, which required no battery to operate. When the battery failed in a Chevrolet in say 1940 the price of a battery was more than the car was worth.
2. The lack of a fuel pump that will disable the car when it fails.
3. The lack of a water pump that will disable the car when it fails.
All these traits - that are unique to a Model T - are the ones that make a Model T so utterly and convincingly reliable.
And I suppose that was why Henry went to a battery powered distributor ignition in 1928.
Wonder why Edison bought Splitdorf and sold a setup to fit into a T generator opening for a drive?
You make three good reasons for the Model T's survival Royce, but I don't think that those are the ONLY reasons, and I don't know that the Chevrolet's ignition system had much if anything to do with Chevrolet's poor survival rate.
And it really IS hard to ignore the fact that the entire auto industry, including Ford, went to the battery/generator powered distributor ignition system for the next 50 years or so, and never looked back!
You and many others are much more adamant about keeping the Model T original Royce than some of the rest of us that are having fun with Model T's that we keep running as easily and cheaply as possible with either more limited finances or mechanical aptitude, or both. And neither way is WRONG Royce. We still all have (and enjoy) Model T Fords, and I personally believe that there were many thousands of Model T's that "farmer Brown" would fix with bailing wire and in a way, those ol' "flivvers" are "original" too. (....and, I'll bet a few of them survived too!)
I guess my point is, I'm sure not going to argue which approach to the hobby is right, and which is wrong, because I feel that as long as you don't cut 'em up to make hot rods, either approach is right and part of the hobby.
In a way, it kinda' compares to what I see on Antiques Road Show. Some people would take an old and collectable antique chair that is very ugly due to the original finish having turned absolutely black and crackled from age. However, if you strip the chair down and refinish it and make it very beautiful, you've destroyed most of the value. In my humble opinion,...WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP! It's STILL the same chair and it's now beautiful. It's only those few fanatics that establish the value, and they are only a fraction of the number of people that would now view the chair as a thing of beauty.
Harold,
I was using comparables to the Model T, not cars that came afterwards. Ralph asked for proof that the Model T was superior in reliability. The numbers don't lie.
Paul,
I've never seen a Splitdorf Model T system in person. Seen pictures in one of my Ford Owner magazines. They must be pretty rare. How many do you own? Any of them run, or are they wall art?
Don't know Ralph! A friend has one I will see if he or myself can post some pictures I have seen.
Royce,
I had to look that up. You said, "Then you need to consider that Chevrolet production from 1925 - 27 was equal to or more than Model T production in each of those years." Actually for the three years total Ford produced about twice as many cars as Chev. In 1925 Ford produced over five times as many as Chev and 1926 2 1/2 times as many as Chev. Production reversed in 1927 and 1928.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Automobile_Production_Figures
Even so, it does seem like there is a higher percentage of Model T's on the road then Chev's.
Jim
Chevrolet didn't pass Ford in production until calendar year 1927, a position which they held until 1929 and regained again in 1931. We all know the reason for part of that: Ford stopped building Model T's; and sales of Model T's began to decline. Also, he was retooling for a new automobile.
Maybe, just maybe, the reason there are more Model T's on the road than Chevy from that time is that the Chevrolet was an inferior automobile construction wise, regardless of the amenities it may have provided. Or by the shear fact that more cars on the road in the world, period, were Model T's
William, I worked on and drove a 1920 Chevy coupe and there is nothing inferior about it.
I will go so far as to say it's a superior car.
But, like every other car of the day, it cost more.
It may be a superior car. I don't know enough about Chevies to make an educated guess. I know the only Chevy I ever worked on was a 490 and it was a piece of....you decide.
Think about it! A Chev crank weight like Ralph's is 25 pounds a late T crank is about 15 pounds the T cranks are coming apart. If you take 10 pounds a crank weight times a million cars a year you have ten million pounds of metal.
There are more Model T's because there are more Model T's period. You can't compare a 19 year run of the same basic model to anything except perhaps the old VW Bug. On the other hand did any other manufacturer try to duplicate the planetary or the low tension mag & coils back in the day? The mag is buried in the engine and the trans is also incorporated in the engine. Neither is easy to repair unless you consider pulling the engine to repair them easy. I don't. As to the E-Timer: Mike obviously has the intelligence to take an idea to fruition. Those same smarts probably told him he wasn't going to retire on this invention but I doubt he forsaw the black & white situation that's developed over it. Fixing a shot mag is not an easy fix in my book. In fact a lot of guys seem to have a real problem doing it. If the E-T is an answer for you in a shot mag situation drive your car and enjoy for cryn' out loud.
If someone buys an E-timer because their mag doesn't work right, they really should find out why it doesn't work. If the magnets are missing, that is one thing, but most other problems are either simple and cheap to fix (wiring, mag post, switch, coil tuneup, or in-car recharge) or they are potential dangers (broken magnets or magnet screws, loose metal parts, coil ring coming apart).
Mike K - The 9V battery test is a neat demonstration. What is the measured current draw at a typical driving RPM (say 750 or 1000 for example)?
John I'm reasonably sure there's a small number of guys out there that will jump at the E-T without even pulling the mag post to check for lint but I'm willing to put up a few bucks that it's not many. People with a shot mag, for what ever reason, and people willing to try something new (that apparently works to boot), have an option with this gizmo they didn't have before. No body that owns one has logged one single complaint about it. It doesn't show so it's OK here.
To a All:
Getting back to the original thread ............
Yesterday, I tested the E-Timer with a 9 volt "transistor" size battery. I spoke to Mike Kossor & reported my findings, time against voltage & had his verbal permission to report my general findings.
In fact I had two "non-Energizer" brand batteries on board. Both voltages tested the same or begin.... 9.1 volts. ..... from the same blister pack.
The first one tested failed to hold charge in a period of two minutes. Switched to the other battery from the same pack, engine ran perfect, so perfect I continued to drive for 33 minutes before the engine started to miss slightly....... and continued to drive till the engine had noticeable lack of power about an hour later.
I'd like to repeat the test with other brands of batteries....... I question the quality & brand of the battery used......
Radio Shack sells Energizer & their brand of batteries... would also like to test .
More testing & detailed report to follow in the nest few weeks.
I realize the non-practicality of running ignition on such a small battery, but I want to prove a point of unsubstantiated accusations from the "nay sayers" that a fully charged 6 volt regular car battery will not run the ignition for very long on a total loss system. If a small sized 9 volt battery can run the ignition for 30 to 60 minutes, how long can a fully charged 6 volt car battery run the ignition ??
Bob Jablonski
Some people have skinny arms and no covered area to pull the engine out and spend 5 years repairing the mag'. How do you guys avoid dropping the engine on the floor anyway? No wonder you need the oil pans straightened they must be bashed flat when you haul them out.
If anyone tried anything like that guy who made some electronic gizmo to replace the points and condenser out of old radio parts because he could not fix the coils the standard way they get totally bashed online, No wonder nobody invents anything anymore.
Bob: Lithium Ion batteries are what you should try. They seem to last the longest whatever their used for.
Bob,
Thanks for posting your data. Interesting results and sounds like you had a lot of fun acquiring it too! Now that is consistent with the E-Timer theme I envisioned as opposed to all the unwelcome soap box sermons this thread attracted. I am starting to fear getting red paint thrown on me the next time I am out at a swap displaying the E-Timer to those interested for crying out loud. Hopefully nothing worse!
Guys, the E-Timer was a significant electronic challenge for me to design and was a heck of a lot of fun perfecting. I learned a lot about the Model T ignition systems, got interested in a great hobby that my Son enjoys too and best of all, made a lot of great acquaintances along the way. I have never bashed the original Ford ignition system; I have stated my awe for its elegance on numerous occasions and respect for those who ensure it will be enjoyed by those who follow. In no way do I advocate anyone permanently abandon the original stock Ford ignition system. The E-Timer is simply another ignition option that can be installed with average skills without specialized tools or knowledge. It provides excellent performance for every day driving without wearing out sought after NOS components that are getting harder and harder to find preserving them for future use on special occasions or whenever desired. Should you ever purchase a car with one installed, it can be removed in 5 minutes without any evidence it was ever there. I sure hope this helps keep things in perspective and on topic in the future.
John,
Good question; thanks for one that is actually on topic :-) Average current draw is 0.3A at idle and goes up to 0.5A at 1500RPM. I was a bit surprised how long a standard 9V battery was able to run Bob's car until I checked into the specifications. A Duracell 9V battery is reported to have a capacity of 550mHA. i.e. it can support a load drawing 550mA (0.55A) for 1 hour and that is just about as long as Bob’s test data indicated.
For those who were ever interested what exactly was in that little rectangular 9V battery container; check out:
http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/aaaa-cells-inside-a-9volt-battery.ht m
Lets use the magneto and a diode to keep a 12 volt battery charged. Then we can run the e-timer off the magneto, at least indirectly. Now for backup we can keep a Tiger timer and a set of 4 Model T coils under the seat. And if we have room we could also carry a distributor and coil.
So now in the same car we can be modern, or original or in between and are able to casually change our Model T ignition to please any observer.
Mike - thank you very much for the data/reply. I hope your son continues to enjoy the hobby with you.
So, if the E-Timer draws 0.5 Amp and a 6 volt deep cycle battery may store 225 amp-hr, a person could run their E-Timer equipped Model T for 550 hours or 16,500 miles on one charge at 30 MPH. That is assuming you don't use the battery for other wasteful things like starting or lights. Cool.
Jim