UPDATED Noisy Transmission (26/27 Touring)

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: UPDATED Noisy Transmission (26/27 Touring)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James R. Booth, DeRidder, LA on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 01:16 pm:

Once again I need advice/assistance. You may recall I reported an "ice crusher" noise in low and reverse but when I engaged high it ran like a dream (no noise anywhere). The overwhelming consensus is I need a transmission rebuild. I concur and am now looking for the "right" person/place to have it done. I have checked the major parts suppliers and all offer the service. I would like to hear about your experiences or knowledge of the service they provide or if there is someone else that works on transmissions (Like "Ron the coilman").
If you have derogatory experiences to report and are reluctant to say that on the forum please send a private e-mail (See my profile).
Concurrent with the transmission rebuild, I would like to solve another problem - engine oil getting into the differential. This seems to be the ideal time to fix this problem. Again I have reviewed previous threads and found reference to replacing the 4th main or missing the "soft plug" from the tail shaft. Also reference is made to installing an "oil Plug" in the Drive Plate Assembly.
Please address the following questions:
1. Where are these parts located?
2. Is the tail shaft and Drive Plate Assembly the same thing? One place refers to a"soft plug" and another place to an "oil plug"
3. Are these parts available from the parts suppliers? (Part numbers?)
As usual, your input is valued and appreciated. My thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge with me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 03:21 pm:

Click here:
http://www.modeltford.com/item/3324B.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James R. Booth, DeRidder, LA on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 10:55 am:

Thanks Royce - I found the plug but not the "tail shaft" or 4th Main. Are they available? Would they be provided with the transmission rebuild?
No one commented on a recommended source for transmission rebuild. I really need your input on this as it is an expensive process and I want to get it done right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 11:09 am:

Having no experience with the T transmission I may be totally off base here, but I'd take a look at the MTFCA transmission book and see if it's a job I could do myself. Using the MTFCA axle book I got through my first rear axle rebuild without much trouble, so I expect I'll do the same when I have to get into a transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 11:25 am:

James,

You might consider sending your transmission to Ross Lilleker. He does a fine job on everything and is a nice guy to deal with. I rebuild them myself but have a "day job" so its kind of tough for me to rebuild one for someone else. It takes a good bit of time to rework everything, and you need a lathe and a hydraulic press.

Here's Ross' web site:

http://www.mrmodelt.com/model-t-transmission.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 12:22 pm:

Re No 2, more or less are the same thing, the tail shaft is attached to the drive plate. The oil plug is a soft plug (freeze plug) which is inside the tail shaft. The 4th main supports the tail shaft and transmission.
Have you ridden with someone else that has a good transmission to compare sounds?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 01:41 pm:

To do the job right you need to orient the transmission shaft with the flywheel and crank shaft. There are a number of ways the combination can be set up to eliminate wobble at the end of the trans shaft. If I were to do another transmission I would insist having the block with the crank.

Typically what a trans rebuilder will do is take a tiny cut off the flange of the trans shaft to true it. This won't solve the problem unless he also faces the front of the flange where the flywheel rides and faces the end of the crank flange. Even if all those things are done, you still need to try different combinations to insure no wobble. When I do trans rebuilds I strive for .004" run out, but accept .006" Also most trans rebuilders dont do anything with the rear brake drum bushing because its just too hard to get alignment on the brake drum bushings and the driving plate bushing. Thats Ok if you have a 26-27 driving plate captured by the brake drum but not Ok if you have the earlier type. Ford use three bushings there because they were necessary. You should too.

If you look for a rebuilder I have given you plenty of ideas so you can ask questions.

The secret of a good trans rebuild is
1. Little wobble on the trans shaft
2. Flywheel running true
3. Drums and flywheel dynamically balanced
4. Triple gears static balanced.
5. Accurate alignment on the brake drum driving plate assembly
6. New triple gear bushings with .0035-.005 thou clearance on the pins, a little less on the other bushings, you can get by with .002 on the slow and reverse drums due to their size.

Now once you've got the transmission hanging on the block, be sure you don't pull things out of alignment by have a pan thats crooked or the mounting flange of the 4th main not square with the pan. There is a lot to putting an engine/ trans back together if you do it right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James R. Booth, DeRidder, LA on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 03:04 pm:

Steve: from what I have seen of your work (on the forum) I have no doubt you could do the job as well or better that anyone I could send it to. I have read the books and for that reason concluded it is above my head. I will do the rear axle my self but lacking the equipment and knowledge I do not dare to attempt the transmission - comments such as those submitted by Richard Gould scare the heck out of me.
Mark: To answer your question, there are no Ts anywhere around here but I have driven them before and am certain there is a major problem in that low and reverse sound like an ice crusher when depressed. No noise in high - runs like a dream.
Royce: I will contact Ross.

Thanks all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 06:10 pm:

You might contact Dexter Doucet, he is in Lafayette, which is not too far away. I don't know the history of your car, often when a transmission is rebuilt,the clearance in the bushings is reduced and the gears no longer contact each other as they have for the previous eighty years. The result is a transmission that works fine but is very noisy, at idle and in low or reverse. Dex has posted on the forum and has done considerable work on his Model T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 06:16 pm:

I should mention most well worn transmissions I have encountered are not noisy.


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