The Coil Doctor Coils!!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: The Coil Doctor Coils!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 04:26 pm:

Can't rave enough about these babies! Was super excited last week to get the license plate for the '14 speedster, only to drive it just one day and have a coil die on me. As a relative newbie, I was unaware of the inferiority of the newer plastic-cased coils. However! I ordered 4 new wooden coils from The Coil Doctor and he got them to me PRONTO. Just went for a little drive (couldn't help myself even though it's 900 some odd degrees outside), and it drives like a completely different car. Started right up on the first crank, was very snappy and responsive, I'm thrilled. Thanks to Mr. Mize and all the folks who recommended him!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 04:40 pm:

Are the wooden coils all new with wires or strips for the Magnet pole?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 04:48 pm:

They're not completely new, just new in the sense that he sold me cores that he had on hand and then reworked them. The magnet poles are wires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 08:35 pm:

So I went on a nice long drive this evening. And right at top speed (about 40 mph) the engine would want to keep revving but then it would miss and lose some RPMs. But then I could get right up to a sweet spot, and then just balance the throttle and spark advance. If I got greedy the whole cycle would start over.

What is that? It did the same thing whether on mag or battery. Is that the upper limit of what the roller timer is capable of, or do I have another problem? I still have tons of throttle left and the car WANTS to go faster, but then the timing misses. I've got all new wiring and obviously new coils. I don't want to go WAY faster, but about 45 would nice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 08:38 pm:

Probably the timer, if it's a roller type. The raceways get a little wavy in time and then the roller skips and bounces around at higher speeds, causing a miss.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 08:42 pm:

Gotcha, that's what I am thinking the issue is, but wasn't totally sure. Anderson Style timer here I come.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT! You spoke unfavorably about the original Ford roller timer; expect to receive a verbal lashing from Royce. Be prepared to learn the ills of your ways :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 09:07 pm:

I've had good luck with a New Day, which uses a brush instead of a roller or a flapper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 09:50 pm:

Lol, I don't mean to speak unfavorably. I just want to go faster. I had the timer off once before when I originally cleaned and oiled it a couple months ago. It had some ridges on the contacts but I didn't know how much that mattered or not. Just sounds like my timer needs a little TLC. It's all a learning process. I'll see how much I can smooth mine out, and if it performs like I want it to, I'll stick with it. If not I'll get an Anderson or a New Day. If anything I'm really hoping the original Ford will work. We'll see how it goes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 10:13 pm:

Seth,

had exact same symptoms with an original Ford roller timer. I had an extra and had it rebuilt as an Anderson and the problem went away. It would go away with my original timer If I had a lathe to take the bumps out with.

Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 07:11 am:

The Anderson timers can work well. The originals are excellent. Some of the reproductions however have manufacturing problems that cause cylinder to cylinder timing inaccuracy. This can cause rough running at low / mid range speeds, and mysterious tuning problems.

Another problem the Anderson timer design has is the tendancy of the timer to pull the spark lever to full advance when the engine is shut off, or while hand cranking if the engine rocks backwards after a starting attempt. You need to be very cautious when starting your car to avoid a broken bendix or a broken arm.

If you are going to use an Anderson you also need to be aware that the initial timing setting will be way off from an original Ford roller timer, so you need to check timing at TDC and bend your timer rod to match when you first install it. New Anderson timers come with instructions to this effect. Read and follow them!!!!!!

Again, the Anderson can be a good timer, but you need to be aware of its idiosyncrasies, and set it up carefully when installing it the first time. I ran Anderson timers in my cars for a couple years but went back to Ford roller timers because they run great with less chance of bodily harm to me. I also like the New Day timers, but originals are getting harder to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 07:20 am:

Royce,

Seems like I remember you saying you reconditioned Ford timers and sold them. Is this the case or am I mixed up? If you do, please contact me off line. I would be interested in one, maybe two. I did one on the lathe at my last job, but no more access to a lathe. They won't fit in my little bench top model.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 09:55 am:

Seth, my experience is old since I have used Andersons happily and exclusively for over ten years now.

Back when I used to use original style roller timers, and didn't have a lathe, I would chuck up a little sanding drum in the drill press (it will work in a hand held drill motor also). Then carefully sand the inside diameter of the worn race until it is smooth and round.

The timers with the orange plastic ring in there used to work great for me for 50-100 miles and then had to be sanded again.

With my Anderson timers on two cars I never had one change the advance setting on me, even if the engine rocked back. Perhaps I keep my timer mounting spring bolt a bit tighter than Royce does. So it would be a good idea on any timer to check that you have it tight enough so it stays put, but you can still operate it from the lever.

I also have some experience with the New Day style timer (again more than 10 years ago since I haven't found a reason to change out my Anderson timer). They get chewed up and flakey at higher speeds also. You can resurface them, but you need a lathe or mill to do that. They also didn't last long, unless you found an old original with the lettering "Made in usa" on the front. Those were made of harder stuff and seemed to go forever.

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 09:59 am:

The New day Steve shows is the repro type. Look at the bottom where it says "No Oiling", You want one that says USA there.


TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 10:14 am:

I found that the New Day repos that were made of the grey type plastic are the most inferior.
I dont know when the original color versions started to be reproduced but the darker brown ones and the original ones seem to work well for me.
I think that the brush is always the culprit for a New Day giving trouble.
The repo brushes that are being made now seem to work pretty good. Or they do for me anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 11:49 am:

Terry, thanks for a useful heads-up. I didn't do a thorough search, but a quick look in my shop turned up several no oiling New Day timers and no made in USA. Now I'll know what to watch for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 01:23 pm:

I have three New Day timers and have one of them on my '14 Touring now. None of them have the "no oiling" or "Made in USA" on them, but all three of them have an "S" at the top directly under the hole for the timer rod. Are these old originals, or maybe an in between type made after the old originals and before the more recent ones?

I would appreciate any thoughts on these "S" marked New Day timers.

Thanks, Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 02:36 pm:

I believe the "S" indicates timers made by or for Snyder's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 04:12 pm:

Thanks, R.V.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 06:56 pm:

The black / grey ones are marked S. The originals are marked Pat'd and are a brown material, perhaps bakelight. I have many of them but none marked USA.

Also, there are some brushes made from pot metal with bronze contact, other ones made from steel with bronze contact, and some with brass construction and copper contact. Not sure which is which as far as reproduction or original.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 09:02 pm:

Update! So, I got the timer off and sure enough my contacts were anything but smooth. 2 in particular were really bad, like teeth on a bread knife. I got the dremel tool out and worked them as smooth and round as I could, and then put the contacts back in the timer body and sanded round and round until it felt like a nice smooth circle. No real bumps or ridges.

Got it back in the car and ZOOM! Way better. We'll see how long it lasts before it needs some TLC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Borland. Bathurst. NSW. Australia. on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 05:01 am:

G'day
I had two repo New Day timers that burnt badly on the departure side of the contacts causing the engine to develop a surge at first when under power, then hard to start and eventually a constant miss and no power. Stay away from the repo's they are crap and fail in a short period of time.

Peter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 11:29 am:

I have two NOS New Day timers in front of me. Both of them have no oiling at the bottom, and Pat'd at the top. I agree with Randall, that the ones with the S on top are Snyders, and are not reliable. This is just hearsay, but I also understand Gaslight makes the best reproduction.
For me, I'll take an original any day.


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