New front tires

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: New front tires
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By zach kubesh on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 06:44 pm:

Hi everyone, I am in need of new front tires for my model tt truck. They are 30 /3.5, the tubes are still fine but I am unsure of what hardware if any is between the tube and the wooden spoke? Can I just by a tire and mount it or is there a rubber flap between the rim and tire? Also are any of the tire manufactures better than the other or are all the tires molded in the same factory and stamped with different brand names.

Thank you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 07:01 pm:

Zach,

There is only one factory in Vietnam making Universal, Coker, Firestone and Wards Riverside brands. These tires are made to different specifications and each has a slightly different rubber compound.

Everything in life is a trade off, and so the softer compound tires (Universal) are easiest to mount yet wear the fastest.

Conversely the Firestone and Coker Excelsior tires are the hardest compound, but are harder to mount. The Firestones last longer and cost more. They are pure hell to mount. I have them on two of my cars.

The flaps help you mount the tire, by protecting against tire tool punctures. I never use them and have no problem with flat tires. Others have lots of flats when they fail to use them. I think the difference is mounting technique. Your mileage may vary. In any case Ford never supplied a flap with any Model T originally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 07:10 pm:

I know the current Riversides won't wear anywhere near as well as the previous ones. I have some from the seventies that are holding up better than the the new ones. How do today's Wards compare with other current tires for hardness?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Monday, July 23, 2012 - 08:03 pm:

Steve couldn't be more right. I bought a new pair of rear tires to replace my ancient Montgomery Ward's Riversides because their treads looked a little shallow in the middle and I wanted to have a healthy layer of rubber between the road and the tires' cord, but judging from the way these old tires are wearing (meaning in the two years I've had the car, the Ward's Riversides seem not to have put on any wear at all, as opposed to my front Firestones, which are definitely wearing), maybe I'll leave the Riversides on another couple of years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 03:36 am:

Maybe no flaps with the 30" tires from Ford, but the 21" split rims all needed flaps back then as well as now, so Ford did supply flaps with some T's. Wire wheel rims are rough where the spokes are welded so it's likely they all got rim liners, too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 10:25 am:

My brother Jon mounts tires with no tools whatever, just uses his hands and feet. Takes him less than 3 minutes. He just did 4 new Firestones on my dad's car on Saturday. I keep telling him that he should do a demonstration of his technique at Hershey or Chickasha.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 10:29 am:

Better yet, how about a video?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike bartlett Oviedo,Fl on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 02:57 pm:

RV, Tell brother Jon,he can demonstrate the 5 I'll bring him at Hershey. Mama always said he was the pretty one!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 06:21 pm:

I am the same way, I don't use tire tools to install tires. Just bolt the wheels to the car, sit on my little milk stool and do it.
Start by inflating the tube just enough so it is not flat. Then stuff it in the tire.




After I get the valve stem in the hole I let the jack down enough to trap the tire on the rim at the bottom. Now car cannot fall off the jack and the tire is easy to manhandle into place.


Just a little bit left - I pull it over the rim.


Dad is asking what the heck is taking so long.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 07:39 pm:

Royce,

I always look forward to the last photo of your Dad asking "What took so long". No matter how many times I see it I always get a big chuckle out of it. Some how I see my Dad saying the same thing. I just wish he was here to enjoy my Model T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

He's 95 and he still comes over every Saturday and Sunday to help me work on Model T's. He started working on T's in my grandfather's shop "Auto Inn" in Eagle Bend, Minnesota in 1930.

Here's the shop where Dad learned how to work on Model T's. My grandfather is in the white shirt. This picture is from about 1919.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By zach kubesh on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 10:24 pm:

thank you everyone


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince Altieri on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 10:55 pm:

Royce, you're the best....great post


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 11:04 pm:

Royce,

I have two new firestones i will be mounting soon to replace some original wards. I really like your method. I already bought flaps before learning Ford didnt use them. I would like to use them since they are not returnable (had them for awhile). Will your method work with flaps?

Thanks

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 03:16 am:

Royce - I like the looks of your method too. Last time I mounted tires, I did manage to get all four mounted after about a half a day's work, but I'll swear that I did each one a different way and none of them were easy.

Would you use your same method on 4:50 X 21's on demountable rims on wooden wheels?

How about 4:50 x 21's on Ford wire wheels on a '27? Same way?

Thanks,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 06:52 am:

Vince,

The flaps complicate things. They also make it stiffer and harder to push the tire over. You might need a helper.

Vince,

I helped dad install a set of tires on his '28 AR Model A phaeton. They are tough. I doubt you can do it without tire irons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 09:26 am:

Royce, Jon's been cheating all these years--he uses his hands AND his feet.

FWIW, the new Firestones that Jon just mounted did have the flaps.

The nice thing about doing it Royce's and Jon's way is that there is no scratching whatever of a freshly painted/powder coated/zinc coated rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 09:50 am:

Royce, Do you also demount tires with only your hands as well??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 10:04 am:

New Owners:

NO FLAPS equals flat tires, its that simple. I know some one is going to jump up and say they don't use flaps and don't get flats but the average says different. And no I don't have any statistics to back that up. The sharp beads on the old Firestones could cut up a tube in 10 miles. So its your T its your choice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 10:42 am:

Could different size tires and different size rims require more than hand and foot pressure?

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/263135.html?1328018113

Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 02:24 pm:

I just wore down a full set of tires on my 15 Dave. Never had a flat from installation till replacement. No flaps ever. Fronts were Universal T drivers, got almost 6000 miles. Rears were used Goodyears a buddy gave me in 2001. Changed all of them cause they were worn out.

The Goodyears were very well made, too bad they are not available any more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 04:58 pm:

I want one of those new improved cars - the ones where you only have to remove and replace 4 bolts to change a tire! ;)

I use the non-removed wheel and hand (well, feet - not as strong as y'all) method also... No flaps (could never figure out how to use them without pinching a tube or fighting with the valve stem), I tried once (when I was younger and dummer) wrapping the rim with duct tape - because I was told it was better than flaps... amazing how fast that tube blew!

I think I did the wheel dismounted method one time - took 4 times as long, scraped my paint, and was flat exhausting.

Know what I miss? The old NZ tires we used to get that wore like iron. Had to replace the last set for Cracking... ;(

What I'm wondering - (a) do the gray tires wear closer to black tires or white tires (the white ones wear out way too fast), and (b) do the nonskids last as long as the treads? (and what about those BF Goodrich oversize ones - anyone ever try those??)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 07:10 pm:

Royce - Ref. my Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 03:16am post - Thanks,........harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

Susanne greys and whites are no longer available sorry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 05:08 am:

Undersize wheels or trick photography?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 07:24 am:

Harold,

Sorry, this should have been directed at you, not Vince:

I helped dad install a set of tires on his '28 AR Model A phaeton. They are tough. I doubt you can do it without tire irons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 10:30 am:

Susanne:

If you want demountables on your cars all you have to do is change Wheels. It seems that 50 percent of all the wheels on the early cars and chassis that I drag in around here were changed from the non demountables to demoutables. People were smart enough to do that back them when money was tighter. I decided long ago to CHANGE the non demountables on my 12 and I also CHANGED the non demountables on my 16.
The originality fanatics may think that they need the MODEL T expierence of changing a non demountable tire out on the high way with cars going by at 80 miles an hour but I can do with out it. Or if you have garage queens then you don't have to think about getting a flat out on a busy highway.

sheep meadow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 01:41 pm:

Royce - No matter Royce; it certainly answered my question. I figured that between your experience and especially your Dad's, there's probably no other two guys that could figure out an easy way to mount those 4:50 x 21's without tire irons and such than you two guys. One thing's sure; I'm gonna' need to put a set of tires on my '27 depot hack pretty soon, and I'm sure not looking forward to it! Maybe I can "sweet-talk" some of the guys in my club into a work party whereby at least a couple of the guys that say that it's not all that hard can "DEMONSTRATE" their tire-mounting skill and proficiency, huh? One of those "Tom Sawyer" things you might say,....ha,ha,......thanks again Royce. I kinda' figured your method was pretty much aimed toward the "brass" guys,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 02:06 pm:

When the time came to switch out one of the front Firestone Non-skids that came with my car, it was surprising to find that there was no flap in the tire and yet it had been worn down to the nub without the tube ever having been punctured (no patches). When the replacement had been purchased, I had also bought a flap, but found it absolutely impossible to fit the tube, the flap and my fingertips into the rim. So, the new tire went on without the flap. It's about halfway worn, now, but so far, no punctures.

When my rear wheel started clicking, it was time to send it out to Mr. Stutzman for re-wooding. I peeled the well-worn, half-century-old, Ward's Riverside off the rim and there was no flap in there, either. I think it's reasonable to assume the other two tires, which have also gone quite a distance without flattening, are flapless, as well. To me, it's been demonstrated and proven that flaps aren't an absolute necessity. Nevertheless, as I happen to have a flap on hand, I'll attempt to install it when re-mounting that old, rear Riverside (which might just work, as this tire is a good deal larger than the front Firestone Non-skids), but if it won't fit, the tire will go on without it and I'm not going to lose any sleep over the issue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 08:11 pm:

Dave,

It has nothing to do with originality. I don't buy or use things that don't help me in any way. A flap, being invisible when installed, would not affect originality or perceptions thereof. If I can wear tires down to the nub without them, I can't see the value in paying for them. If they helped me even a little the cost would be a non issue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Milano on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 08:45 pm:

Royce, they say to put the jack underneath the spring clip when changing front tires. But on cars with the radius rod connecting underneath like mine do I put the jack on the inside of the radius rod connection towards the crank or on the outside towards the wheel?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 09:37 pm:

The old Wards, Firestone and Goodyear tires that were made in the US did not require flaps. When I bought a set of the new Firestones from NZ, I had three flats in a row. Do as Dave says, and install flaps, and you will have many miles of trouble free driving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 10:56 pm:

My tire dude has changed 9 clinchers for me and 2 4.50 × 23 tires for me. None of them had flaps.
The reason for changing all of them was not because of tube failure, per se, but stem failure.......ie: CHEAP, thin tubes.
On another note when I was at the Iola Old Car Show I checked out the $99, Lucas Vietnam 4.50 × 23, tires as I needed one for the Tudor so I could use one of the others for a spare.
As far as I can TELL they SEEM to be very well made. Very heavy and flexible at the bead and the sidewalls seem substantial. They even smell right.
Maybe they've changed?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 12:43 am:

Last year I got a flat at a fair. Bought a new tube by a present dealer. It lastet only a few meters! Another tube - same result, but that was MAYBE because I had issues with getting them pumped. Ended up borrowing a spare.
Returned to home with another 2 tubes I managed to get it all mounted and pumped to 60 PSI. Both lasted just a few miles when blown.
On the other 3 wheels sits tubes that have lasted for 1000's of miles but bought from another source.
Now I went to the same source and bought 2 new tubes.
The still lasts (the one is in my spare wheel.
Lessons learned: Some tubes are just crap!!! I do not know for sure from where my local dealers get their tubes. The bad ones most likely originates from either Snyders or Macs as they are the dealers main suppliers while I have no idea from where the good tubes comes from. Could be Langs as I actually learned about Langs at his place when he gave me a catalog.
No flaps as I just can't manage to mount the tires with flaps :-) I use the irons as little as possible when mounting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 02:29 am:

Fellows, I gave up fitting 21" tyres to T&A wire wheels. With modern tyre fitting equipment, your local tyre shop can handle 21" rims. The absolute worst outcome is a possible little chip where the machine grabs the rim. These little marks are on the inside of the wheel anyway. The machine rolls the tyre on without ever making contact with the rim, so NO damage to the paintwork.

Believe me, it is well worth what he might charge to do the job. Often they are interested enough to do the job for minimal cost.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 04:34 am:

Allan - WOW! Now there's a little tip from Australia that I'm going to remember! At my age, I think I can still mount tires, but as much work as it is, and as stiff and sore as I would be the next day, it would be worth whatever they would charge me! We have a chain of tire stores out West here in the U.S.A. that are really known for their excellent customer service (Les Schwab Tires) and I'll bet if anyone can (and would) do it, they would. I was always under the impression that modern tire mounting machinery could not handle 21" wheels. Thanks so much for that idea,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 06:47 am:

RE: tubes, I have some original Montgomery Wards Riverside tubes that just came out of 50 years service in my 17 runabout. They are extremely thin, made of natural rubber. Two of them were rubber stemmed, they came unvulcanized at the stem recently, within a year of each other. The other two tubes have the small 5/16" diameter nickel plated brass stems. They are still good. Again, very thin natural rubber tubes.

The tubes I have been getting recently from Langs and Coker tire all say Made in USA on them. There are two distinct types, some made of very thin natural rubber just like the old Monky Wards tubes and some made of synthetic rubber that are much thicker. All of these are metal stemmed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 07:03 am:

The last time I ordered tubes from Coker, I was asked if I wanted the cheap ones or the good ones(about twice as much). I got one of each and they were as different as night and day--one felt like a bicycle tube, the other felt like a heavy truck tube.


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