"1912" Edsel Ford Speedster at auction

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: "1912" Edsel Ford Speedster at auction
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 12:01 pm:

1912 Ford

This auto does not resemble the 6 cylinder Edsel speedster I saw at the Ford Museum in 1955. I just do not believe that this auto has the body that it had when built for Edsel in 1912. It has little Never Out side lights. I am sure the original auto would not have used them. The whole vehicle looks out of place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bernard Paulsen, San Buenaventura, Calif on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 01:02 pm:

But I'd sure like to get it for Christmas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M Philpott on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 02:46 pm:

Here is the rest of the story

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/07/24/edsel-fords-six-cylinder-model-t-s peedster-heads-to-auction/?refer=news


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 03:48 pm:

It is loaded with 1920s items. The body is latter, much later than 1912. It has an later AC speedometer and post 1919 ignition switch. Yes, it would be fun to own, but call it for what it is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 03:51 pm:

One more comment. The description states "Restored". A "creation' would be a better term.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 04:03 pm:

Here's an earlier thread on this car: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/127821.html?1267509740
See this early pic of one of Edsel's early speedsters posted by Hap
edsel's folly
Look at the fenders.. plus the documentation (shown in the linked thread) from the 1980's auction at the Henry Ford museum showing the provenance there since the 30's nails the story I think.
Obviously the current body isn't from 1912 - Edsel didn't use much body at first it seems. Since it seems it was bought back to the museum in the 30's, Edsel may have sold it at some time earlier & a 20's speedster body was added by someone. The museum fix up in the thirties may have added inauthentic lights - early restorations weren't always aimed at authenticity, more "showability"..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 06:05 pm:

I believe this car has a 6 cylinder engine that was developed while Henry and Clara Ford were on vacation in Europe around 1913. (Reference, Stern)

A prototype touring car was built using the new engine and chassis. The story is that when Henry came back and saw the prototype he took a sledge hammer and started beating the car to pieces as the engineers stood by and suffered silently in shame.

It may indeed be the same chassis and fenders as the car pictured with Edsel driving, with a winter body installed. One must remember that Edsel Ford, son of the world's richest entrepreneuer, could wave his hand and have a car like this built on a whim. It might have been his favorite car for a week, or a day.

Who knows, but it is in any case very significant and valuable. I look for it to fetch money in the hundreds of thousands range.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 09:41 pm:

You know the auction's going to be a high dollar affair because it's a Grande Salon, not just a grand salon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mc Ginnis Dearborn, MI on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 12:21 pm:

Here is the car pictured in the 1982 Henry Ford Museum Auction Catalog. As many of you may remember, the Henry Ford Museum held a series of auctions during the 1980s where many historically significant vehicles and other items were sold off. The current owner of this speedster bought this car at this auction and has owned it since. He also purchased a 1901 Isotta Serial Number One that was a gift to Henry Ford back in the 1920s. I don't know why he restored the car, however, many of the cars that were sold were in rough condition and/or had been poorly restored many years ago. Unfortunately, this is the only photo of this car shown in the 1982 catalog, but other than the color (the auction catalog is black and white, so I don't know what color the car was when sold), the car retains all of the features shown in the current photos. This speedster is similar to the other Ford family cars that have survived in that it has many updated or later year parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mc Ginnis Dearborn, MI on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 12:44 pm:

Here are some other "tastey treats" that were listed in the same 1982 Henry Ford Museum Auction catalog. There were over 540 lots in this two day sale. I believe the 1915 "special coupe" is somewhere near Chicago now, I owned the 50th MIllionth Ford briefly about 10 years ago, it is in a private collection now, the Six Cylinder Model S is "down under" I believe. Not sure where these other items ended u.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mc Ginnis Dearborn, MI on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 12:50 pm:

Another....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mc Ginnis Dearborn, MI on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 12:52 pm:

Another....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mc Ginnis Dearborn, MI on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 01:01 pm:

a couple of the early engines,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mc Ginnis Dearborn, MI on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 01:04 pm:

Just a couple of the early engines.....and more....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 02:05 pm:

The 1915 couplet is owned by a friend of mine in Rockford Il, he also has the 1908 that was in the museum that was told to be a later T converted back to look like the 08, when he got it home he found # 1 stamped on the radiator and # 2 on the block, this was the same car pictured with Floyd Clymer in the books
Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 06:58 pm:

I believe the '55 Bird is now in So. Cal. and may be the oldest known Thunderbird.

I can't believe they let that stuff go. Whoever gave the o.k. to off that stuff should have been driving a taxi instead of overseeing that museum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 07:08 pm:

Paul,

Can you tell me if the Cyclecar ( pictured below ) which was featured in the July - August 1982 Vintage Ford was listed for that 1982 Museum Auction ? I have made some inquiries and it would seem that the Museum no longer has it.

Best regards, John




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mc Ginnis Dearborn, MI on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 07:40 pm:

It is not in the 1982 catalog. I'd have to dig up my other catalogs to see if it was in one of the other auctions. From memory, I don't think so. A lot of items were sold "privately" from the museum over the years as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 08:32 pm:

Thanks Paul. If you can't find anything I hope someone here has some knowledge of where it is now. Best regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 10:56 pm:

As a professional curator, I too, cannot understand the deaccession and sale of such significant pieces of Ford history. Obviously the curator at the time had way too much power to not have the process governed by a larger body of knowledgeable museum people.
But I am judging it from outside the institution!
BTW, it didn't make sense to me at the time either, and I wasn't a curator then!
T'
David D.
PS That sale has hurt many museums, as it tainted the public trust in museums as a safe place to leave historic items--IMHO.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 11:12 pm:

Paul,

Thanks for posting some scans of the sale book. I've been looking for Henry Ford Museum sale books for my library, but have had no luck!

Keep in mind even Henry Ford sold items from the collection. The Twenty Millionth Ford is a prime example of this. It was sold in 1940.

I haven't been to the Ford Museum in a few years. Was hoping to make this years Old Car Festival, but not sure if I'll be able to with work commitments.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 04:27 pm:

It is interesting that the engine in the 1909-10 Model T that was fitted with some early parts to become the "First Model T" had engine number 2. I saw that T several times when at the Ford Museum. It is interesting to know what happened to it. Where is it now? Does it still remain a mixture? Any recent photos?


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