Hello everyone:
I have a bad wood wheel on my 1919 T. I figured for safety sake I might as well just do the other 3 wheels since I'm making the trek 2 hours to Stutzman Wheel Shop.
I was thinking of using a dark varnish to show the wood grain on the wheels. I realize this is not correct color for my year. I don't want to go too nice since my car has the rough "barn look". Any ideas of what colors or products I should use to maintain a rough look while showcasing the grain of the wood?
Thanks!
Ryan
Except on pre-'13s, I like black.
However, although Ford factory did not issue cars with natural finish on wheels, it has been shown that some dealers in major markets offered Ts with wheels stripped and varnished. Sometimes they dressed them up a bit to better compete with other cars and dealers. Good idea to get all the wheels good and safe.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I too prefer a quality gloss black enamel applied over a good grade exterior wood primer (I like Sherwin Williams A-100). Not only do I like the original look of black, black enamel with its' pigments protects the wood from the elements and damaging UV rays better than clear varnish which looks good for awhile but begins to crack and dull and turn white as the water penetrates through to the wood. Just my opinion. Jim Patrick
I like the wood look but will stay with black because that is what was originally on my 1919.
I vote black too. No matter how good, varnish just doesn't last as well.
Ryan,
It appears that most prefer black. Yet as you point out, you can do anything.
The biggest issue IMHO for a more natural look is folks want the white-wood look, under varnish, and at some point the varnish fails when not looking and now what to do? Those discolored streaks are now permanent and the wheels then get painted black, or they need to be acid stripped, neutralized, and start again.
Years ago, I had a set that wouldn't whiten up even after resorting to a professional 'dip'. I gave them a stain wash of 50%cut Chestnut to even them out, followed by 3 coats of tung-oil. Don't have a pic on this I-pad...but they came out sharp, have been done for now 30 years, and surprisingly the finish has never failed, never yellowed, and with only a hose down look just as good as the day they were done!
Here is an idea...ask for some of your old spokes Back. Carefully wash them with muriatic followed by lots of clear water flush and let them dry. Light sanding to lower the raised grain, and then try a few things with stain that is cut. You can 'walk' in a color depth by making up a few 'cuts'. 5 coats of 20% cut = 1 coat out of the can. Then make rings on the old spoke, of various coats and when dry hit with a wet water wipe and look at the tone hue...that is what it will look like under a spar/marine varnish, slightly yellower under a tung or BLO (boiled linseed oil).
New hickory spokes red oak color stain, with varnish over. Slight reddish cast to go with commercial green body.
There's no doubt that painting the wheels black is the correct way to go and there's no evidence to suggest that any Model Ts left the factory with anything but painted wheels.
That having been said...
You can also make the argument that unpainted replacement wheels were commercially available, probably from Ford dealers and most certainly from other sources. Therefore, in the same way that Rocky Mountain Brakes can be considered period-correct for the Model T, so can unpainted, varnished, wooden wheels. Unfortunately, I can't bring an unprejudiced mind to this issue because I just love the way stained and varnished wheels look and I've been scratching my head over a minimum-hassle method of stripping my wheels so I can then stain and varnish them to match my incorrect (but gorgeous) steering wheel.
I have used bleach to get out dark streaks and stains in wood in preparation for staining and varnishing, but I've never heard of muriatic acid being recommended for wood, but just because I've never heard of it doesn't mean it is improper.
If there are rust stains in the wood, I would imagine that muriatic acid would be great for removing that, but with anything organic, such as skin and wood, I would not recommend muriatic acid being left on too long. For that matter, bleach will also start breaking down organic tissues such as wood and skin if left on too long. I found this out the hard way when I was restoring an antique Eastlake Victorian clock that had some carvings in the wood. I stripped it and was going to stain and varnish it, as it had some nice wood grain but the wood was discolored due to the old stain penetrating deep into the grain, so I soaked it for several hours in a container of bleach. Unfortunately, when I took it out, all of the carving had dissolved and the clock case was smooth. it Patrick
Wood Bleach (Oxalic acid) is perfect for cleaning up wood - Wheels, decks etc.
It also works great when removing rust from the radiator.
It can be purchased in power form on Ebay for a lot less than you can get it at a hardware store.
Just mix it with warm water to help it dissolve.
Why not try a weathered wood finish if you want to maintain a rustic look?
Thanks guys for the advice! I have some decisions to make. I may just keep them a dull black. I do however like Dan's wheels on the Green T!
Ryan
You can see mine on my profile picture I mixed a couple of colors of stain with boiled linseed oil to my liking I did my firewall, steering wheel, and wheels. Then top coated them with polyurethane 3 coats of stain with a brush whipping off excess as you go let dry then 3 coats of polyurethane.
Let me just say that, correctness notwithstanding, I get more positive comments on my wood-colored spokes than any other single part of my car. They came with the car, and I have no idea when they were stripped or what finish is on them, but people seem fascinated by them.
Peter
So true, with the black spokes folks often find those last in a glance at T's when you park...with natural wood, it's the first thing exclaimed...' gosh..the wheels are made of wood!!"
Here is what clear gloss looks like over brand new hickory, no stain, (unmounted wheel) shows grain but most hickory is rather 'yellow' shade.
My '24 with new clear varnish hickory wheels
Same '24 now with 'old varnished' wheels, changed out the new look for a set that were painted factory black long ago, but now scraped and sanded and sealed with clear gloss varnish.
Ryan you're getting all new (I assume) so you're in the perfect position to leave them natural. My preference by the way. You can easily go to paint later if it's not right for you but like I said you've got a great situation for natural there. I believe a marine grade varnish is what you should finish coat with.
I'm a big fan of black, always, but I would probably stain them dark, like dark walnut, and then use a marine varnish that should prevent water to attack. The best of both worlds.
My back yard swing and my mail box sign both received several coats of the most bad-ass, weather-resistant, marine varnish I could find. I don't know that paint will do any better, but be aware that even the best varnish will weather.
Please see the following thread for a good quality wood primer and black enamel. www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/186068.html. When I had the wheel apart, I sprayed the steel hub and felloe with red oxide steel primer and brush painted with the Sherwin Williams gloss black enamel in the can pictured. I primed the wooden spokes with the exterior wood primer and after allowing them to dry for a week, brush painted the individual spokes with about 3 or 4 coats of the black enamel. I found out later, during assembly, that I should not have painted the tenons, the angled areas where the spokes fit together or the curved hub ends of each spoke because the thickness of the paint added about 1/8" overall between the spokes, thus, preventing me from being able to press the spokes into place, so I had to scrape off the primer and paint from those areas so that the spokes would press into place. After assembly, I touched up and sealed the seam between each spoke with enamel. By the time I was done the spokes were as smooth as glass. Jim Patrick
Good point Steve, but I'd suspect most of the T's owned here aren't left standing outside like your examples.
My vote would be natural, but then again, I like whitewalls on the improved T's and (appropriate) wire wheels on brass cars.
The Model T's I see on this forum probably dont see hardly any time left out in the open by the house or garage.
I wonder what a 12-18,000 restored T would look like after being used as a daily driver and really used for transportation after a few years and parked next to the house and out in the elements every day.
Makes you wonder what the top, wheels and paint job would look like. And oh I forgot the interior in the open cars.
Interesting!
I read in a wood magazine recently that to finish outdoor projects, the best thing was to buy exterior paint base (the one for dark colors) and do not have any tint added. The man that wrote it said that it will last ten years or so (just like paint) and affords UV protection. He also stated it was a satin finish rather than high gloss. I have never tried it but may experiment to see if he was right.
I do a lot of varnish work on boats. The key to using varnish( and a downfall to some people) is proper application and high quality product. If you take the time to apply the varnish properly, it looks great. There is a downside, It does require periodic maintenance. A light sanding and re coating every couple of years will make that beautiful natural wood look last a long long time. Varnish is a natural finish or "Living finish" as called by some. Due to the components of varnish, the oils are absorbed into the wood with time. This is why wood will last longer varnished vs. painted. A high quality Marine Varnish has great UV protection and a high content and Tung and Linseed oil in it. This keeps the wood "alive" It is when the varnish is not maintained that it gets weathered and the sealers on the outside fail, causing greying, discoloring, and peeling. All of these issues can be corrected with sanding and bleaching or stripping if necessary.
A painted wheel does need periodic maintenance also, but due the high content of pigment, and primers under the paint, might not need recoating near as often than varnish. If you strip a painted you will notice the wood has a "drier" look to it the a stripped varnished wheel. I have also questioned the thought that a black painted wheel will absorb much more heat, thus aiding to drying out the wood faster(just a thought of mine with no research done) than a varnished wheel.
I guess it all depends on what you are looking for in appearance and how much time time you spend (or want to spend) on maintaining your wheels. I have given this a lot of thought lately due to the fact that I am sending all 4 of my wheels to Mr. Stutzman this winter to to get new spokes and be trued up....Chip
Just another quick note. For a more aged look, a low gloss or satin finish will help, but will sacrifice some of the longevity of a good gloss varnish finish.