I have been asked to help a gentleman establish a value for a 1920 touring, that was owned by his father. His father restored the car about 35 years ago and enjoyed driving it in parades and around town. His father died 22 years ago, and it was put in dry storage, where it has remained under a tarp since that time. It is located in Chariton, Iowa. It appears to be in very good condition, interior, paint, etc. The engine will turn over with the crank, and has compression. I have attached pictures. We need help in establishing a sale price. Please offer any opinions you might have.
More Pictures of 1920 Touring
Last Pictures
That is the first year for an open T to have starter/generators. It is an interesting year for a T touring or roadster. Looks like a straight and true example with correct parts. Value does depend also upon the mechanics. I have seen similar Ts go for $8000 or so, but there have been some that sold for less and some for more. It would be best if a knowledgable person took a look at it. One should get in running.
Without being there to check it out, I'm guessing $6500 to $8500. The presence of a water pump suggests the radiator may be shot.
I agree with Darel and Steve. The only thing I would add is that if I were to sale this car I would Wash and Wax every inch of it. Also as Darel pointed out it would be a shame not to get it running these two thing can afect the value up to 50% in you favor, in my opinion.
Given what we know of this car's history, I would guess that your average T guy could have the thing running PDQ. As Mike says, that will make it easier to sell.
I paid $9,500. for a 1920 roadster restored and running, 3 years ago. I would say maybe $8,000. as-is not running since there is some risk of repairs and rework needed.
I can't buy the water pump = shot radiator thing.
I think many people added them either because they felt one was needed or just wanted one.
Even if a water pump cured a real or imagined heating problem a pump is a helluva lot cheaper than a radiator.......
I looked back over my notes and the gentleman that has the car, did mention that the radiator did leak when his dad drove it. Don't know how bad it was, or what has happened since.
My Touring had a water pump when I bought it. It also had a new radiator. I believe some folks put them on because they feel it may help in one way or another. I took it off soon after I brought it home. I haven't had any problems with overheating.
Orlando
Water pump is definitely a sign of a heating problem and usually a bad rad. If the rad is good, the water pump is not needed. I would take it off. Price range seems about right, IMO the car would need some enhancement for touring, coils? and aux brakes and maybe bands.
......about the water pump radiator thing, how would you explain my 23 TT. It has a water pump and a new radiator. It was that way when I bought and haven't had a good reason to change anything.
I agree with Steve and William. After viewing the pictures and before scrolling down to see what others had said, I had a figure of $7,500.00 to $8,000.00 in my head. Jim Patrick
I think there are way to many unknowns to be able to say that this car is worth north of $6500. The car may have run 25 years ago but that does not mean that it ran good. If it was going to be my car I would want to spend a lot of time going through everything in the drive train from the rear end forward before I would consider driving it very far. To some people a restored car is upholstery and a paint job. Looking at the car the way it stands now I would be taking into consideration that I would have to rebuild the rear-end, engine and transmission, new coils, starter, generator, electrical, wheel bearings, radiator etc. What condition are the spokes? I would think a good starting price would be closer to $5500 for what I see and know because you can easily get that much more into the car and it still would not be worth what you have in it. What I see here is a nice shell. I'm not trying to offend anyone, just my opinion.
Fred, my guess would be that a previous owner bought the new radiator because the old one was overheating in spite of the pump, and just didn't bother removing the pump. People install all sorts of "improvements" on Model T's. Some really are improvements, but a lot of them are just superstition. In the case of the water pump, as Craig says, it's cheaper than a new radiator. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it's not enough, and sometimes it's there only because the owner considers it an "upgrade".
Ask for 12 and get 10. wouldnt settle for anything less. That car is in great shape. A rusted out one on Model T haven would bring $2,500.
Vince M
Steve - I agree with your assessment.
Here's my thoughts: It doesn't overheat, it doesn't foul plugs, it doesn't leak, and the belt has never come off. So, why take it off. It would probably be ok without it, but it doesn't bother me any.
Many (including me) do not feel a water pump is necessary and several here feel no need for a fan. The engine compartment of a Model T is a pretty sparse place and some just want a few moving parts under there to fill up the space a little (whether they are necessary or not) just to show those that are hard of hearing that the engine is running and that the T is more technologically advanced than it really is, thus the reason why many keep unnecessary accessories and parts on their T's. Jim Patrick
Given the last "restore" date around 1975, and we don't know if the rear end was done then, there is a fairly good chance that the rear axle still has the dreaded Babbitt thrust plates. Since the radiator was leaking before it went to sleep, it's very unlikely that it has gotten better. So we know that a new radiator and a trip through the rear axle are in order. That doesn't consider any issues in the engine, tranny or other driveline issues (wheels, tires, brakes, front end, etc.). Since there a good running tourers out there for about 10k, I would put the value between $6k and $8k, depending on the knowledge of the buyer. There might be a newbie that would pay $10k, but waiting for that might take a while. If it was brass era or the later improved models, it would be a little more desirable (higher priced)
Mike,
I would find a local T expert to go through the car to discover any hidden problems. I also agree a clean, running car will be worth more to a prospective buyer. If the gentleman can find any records of repairs/ rebuild history, that too would be a plus. The car looks nice and if it is as mechanically sound as it looks, it should bring the upper end of the "estimates" discussed here. Good luck! - John
Thank you all for your opinions! I offered to bring the car to my shop for a more in depth assessment, and even offered to see what it would take, just to get it running, at no charge, other than parts necessary. I assumed that a battery, maybe a carburetor kit, new oil, etc, would be all that was necessary to just get it running to see if the transmission and rear end would at least move the car. He did not seem ready to take that step. I assured him, that if it ran, it would bring more money, but that didn't seem to influence him at that time. Thanks again for taking the time to help us out!
Michael, I would be seriously interested in the car if this guy is wanting to sell it, as long as it is priced fairly. Let me know as I could come take a look at it anytime. (I'm in Des Moines)
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