OT -- Narrow Gauge Steam Trains

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: OT -- Narrow Gauge Steam Trains
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 06:05 pm:

I didn't think it was possible, but there are a bunch of guys crazier than we are. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=6VAuPPufNro


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 06:36 pm:

Mike Walder:

Real good,those trains are real nice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 06:39 pm:

Outstanding!
This could get a guy into a new hobby..!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 07:48 pm:

Here's my narrow gauge steam ride last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a1nGxF1bro


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson, OZ on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 07:57 pm:

There's NOTHING crazy about all that, or messing around with T's.
Its just the rest of the world that's crazy. Right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 09:33 pm:

I like Steve's video much MUCH better....... :-)
Whoever did the first video covered up the REAL music with a damn sound track....... :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 11:20 pm:

Looks like you went from Chama to Antonito. We did this train ride a few years ago and I rate it the best ever. Durango and Silverton might have the press, but Cumbres and Toltec is 10 times better. What an awesome ride for the money.

And we think we have a lot to do on our T's. Nothing compred to the machine work those guys do on their steam engines. Lots of fun to ride as well. They will be more than happy to give you a ride if you reciprocate with a ride in your T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 03:06 am:

Craig - I was going to be a bit more "polite" than you were, because it really was a very, very well done video, however, I couldn't agree with you more!

I like music and I like the sound of engines. All kinds of engines,....stationary steam engines, steam locomotives, whether real railroad steam locomotives or live steam models of any size. I also like the sound of old Fords; Model T's, whether stock or speedster, and I like the sound of Model A's too. But I guess there's something wrong with me because I sure don't like music and engine sounds mixed together, because each absolutely ruins the other for me. But I guess most people must find even well done videos boring unless there is overbearing music that nearly obliterates the sound of the engines.

Thanks Craig; at least now I know that there is at least one other guy that feels the same way I do.

There are a couple of railroad shows that I really like on television; "Trains and Locomotives" and "Tracks Ahead" that I really like, but if there isn't music playing that masks the sound of the steam locomotive, the engineer usually seems to think everybody would rather hear him constantly blowing the damned whistle than hearing the sweet sound of the exhaust on a good running steam engine.

Well, anyway, my wife says I'm just an old "grump", and she's probably right, but apart from a good running Model T, there's just nothing I like to hear more than a good running steam locomotive with valves set just right, with the Johnson bar "down in the corner" and the engine pull'n her guts out, starting a heavy train or struggling up a grade, and then, if there's not "MUSIC", the hogger has to blow that damned whistle, or leave the cylinder cocks open for half a mile or more longer then necessary.

There! Now I feel better!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 03:16 am:

Harold, covering over the REAL music is usually the idea of some artsie fartsie trying to do a job about which they know nothing....like a reporter at a steam show for example.
I gave up buying videos of steam shows and such because of that.
You aren't an old grump just because you know what you like...... ;)
And, for the record, I agree 100% about the whistles too. HA ...... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 03:25 am:

Now that I'm through "venting", I took time to watch your video Steve,......TWICE! Wonderful job on that Steve! We rode the Durango & Silverton a couple years ago, and to this day, my wife would tell you that it's one of the most fun things we've ever done. I've told her that we really need to ride the Cumbres & Toltec now so that we can compare them! And your video has certainly done nothing but convince me that we're gonna' do it,......soon! Thanks so much for posting that Steve,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 03:29 am:

We were typing at the same time Craig,.....thanks!

By the way, isn't it strange how many of us "T" guys have similar interests?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 03:39 am:

You know Craig, just to be fair about it, there probably really is a reason for hearing so much "whistle" on steam engine shows and videos.

The safest, easiest and most logical place for a photographer to film the passing of a train is at a grade crossing. And it is an FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) regulation that the engineer whistle PROPERLY for a crossing, and PROPERLY means, two longs, a short, and a long that continues until the locomotive actually reaches and occupies the crossing. I don't mean to sound like a "know-it-all", but as a retired RR cop, this is one of those few occasions when I actually do know what I'm talking about! For what it's worth,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 03:45 am:

Some years ago a newly rebuilt steam locomotive was on a shake down trip and came up through Fondulac, WI, and on to Stevens Point on Wisconsin Central tracks.
I picked a vantage point to stop at to watch the train as it left Point on its return trip.
Unfortunately a film crew also had picked that spot.
So I listened as the train approached and the director told the engineer he wanted LOTS of smoke.....
I said that's a sign of a poor fireman....... :-) .......like it mattered what I said.......it was all for show.......reality be damned....... :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 04:21 am:

You've sure got that right Craig! The sign of a poor fireman I mean. I don't know about other cities, but I know that back in steam engine days, the City of Chicago actually had "Smoke Abatement Officers" that would observe, monitor and levy fines to railroads in the city when they observed excessive smoke. My family and my wife's family is full of railroaders, and I know for a fact that a good fireman and engineer that could work well as a "team " (not always the case) could run an engine with less smoke than some of the first diesels that replaced the steamers.

Another point of interest (for what it's worth) about that film crew director that you overheard asking for lots of smoke; there's a way of doing that too that really makes sense:

In the area of the butterfly doors of the firebox, there is a small hole, maybe about 4 inches in diameter. Every once in awhile, the fireman would open the little cover over that hole (opening the butterfly doors more than necessary kinda' screws up the draft momentarily) anyway, that little hole allowed the fireman to hold a little hand scoop of sand in front of the open hole, and the draft would suck the sand off of the scoop, thru' the firebox, all the way thru' the fire tubes into the smoke box and up out of the stack, and that sand would clean a lot of the black soot out of the inside of the fire tubes in the boiler and make the blackest smoke you ever saw! This was done regularly to keep the fire tubes clean and allow the engine (boiler) to steam better than if the soot was allowed to build up.

Anyway, when the "director" asked for black smoke, I bet that was how it was done, because the black smoke appeared almost instantaneously and lasted only a very short time.

So much for that little bit of RR "trivia",......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 10:55 am:

Back in the 60,s I was a volunteer and helped restore some of the cars that are now on the Cumbres & Toltec, much of the old narrow gage equipment had been sold and put into service in South America and at that time (the 60,s) was coming back home. At that time the owner was restoring the 1860,s RR that had operated at Lake Tahoe Ca. He was contacted by the States of Colorado and New Mexico that had jointly acquired the rail RR now known as the Cumbres & Toltec to operate it for them and he abandoned the Lake Tahoe & Trout Creek RR operation and moved everything to Chama N.M. All volunteers were to receive a lifetime pass on the RR, I'm Still waiting.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Byrne - Racine, MN on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 11:34 am:

Mike Walker said "there are a bunch of guys crazier than we are". . . well I guess I resemble that remark. I've been involved with the Live Steam hobby for about 40 years and have built (or rebuilt) lots of 1/8 size railroad equipment over that time. I also work with full size steam in the form of traction engines and am a licensed steam engineer. Craig and Harold made comments about steam engine operation. I was trained in steam during 70s by a retired CGW railroad engineer. He was one of the tough, no nonsense, by the book locomotive engineers and you did it right or you heard about it. I'll guarantee that if he was on the locomotive in question and was told to over feed the fire to get a bunch of black smoke, he'd have no problem telling the director to go to he!! because that was no way to run an engine and it wouldn't be run that way while he was in charge. It may have been done the way Harold described and then there wouldn't have been an issue. The right water level, the right pressure for the job at hand, a good clean fire, a well maintained and a properly operated engine . . . in his book, just no other way to do it. As far as smoke in a station area, the CGW had a large card that had six windows with different tints. They were held up to the light and compared to the smoke from the stack. If the smoke was darker than what it should be, the fireman and the engineer could receive demerits (negative points) on their record . . . smoke was a serious issue. Below are a few photos of some of the steam (large and small) that I work with. The younger generation is also involved as shown by a young friend of mine, Troy Vetsch . . . oh by the way, he knows how to drive my Model Ts too!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 01:10 pm:

Well, as far as "too much whistling" I've never ever heard that happen--I've always been in love with the sound of a steam whistle echoing off the canyon walls, be it a single hooter or a chime. But then I plan on building a calliope someday, so I guess I'm just "whistle crazy!"
Speaking of which, Harold mentioned the signaling rules, and I suspect the young engineers out here on the UP are not being trained as I hear single toots in town all the time (there's a grade crossing near me. None of the tooting I hear follows ANY railroad signal rules I know. There were two grade crossings just up the canyon from my childhood home and I miss that sound. Someone drove by the road on the other side of our property the other day--must have had a Leslie on his rig because he blew a grade crossing, and Linda & I both jumped up from what we were doing, looked at each other and said, "Where's the train????"
Time to go to work, Oh Bother!
T'
David D.
PS I agree and concur regarding smoke! Sanding the flues is the most legitimate way to do it, though. On the Delta Queen, we had a group with T shirts, 'Soot Happens.' :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 02:01 pm:

David D. - Kinda' thought this thread would eventually get your attention!

I agree about the sloppy use of whistle (horns nowadays) and it reminds me of a peculiar "quirk" that my wife has developed over the years. I'm a retired special agent from the UPRR Police Dept. We live about a block from the UPRR mainline. Knowing how often I used to be called out of bed because of a grade crossing accident, many of which were fatalities I'm sorry to say, she is usually still reading in bed longer than me, and I'd be just about asleep and she'd nudge me and jar me awake with an excited comment like, "did you hear that? He didn't whistle!" To which I'd reply something like,....."well, if he didn't whistle, I guess that's why I didn't hear it".

The point is, we hear the trains all the time and are so used to it that we usually pay no attention,......you know,....kinda' like when the grandfather clock chimes and you don't even hear it. The only time she pays attention is when she DOESN'T hear the standard whistling for a nearby public crossing! It does happen all too frequently, especially at night. I know of several engineers that just hate to blast those air horns at night, especially during the "wee small hours of the morning" when most everybody is asleep, and I can understand their wanting to avoid waking everybody up in a residential neighborhood, but it's more than a mistake; it's a serious rule violation.

By the way, I've been retired nearly 11 years now, and I STILL cringe every time the phone rings, day or night! Too many years of cold, rainy nights being called out of bed to investigate crossing accidents and helping the M.E. pick up somebody piece-by-piece and load a body bag into his (or her) van! I used to get a lot of satisfaction out of things like investigating theft cases and especially working with kids (and parents and school authorities) ref. vandalism cases and such, but the crossing accidents were definitely the "down side" of the job!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Aiken, SC on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 02:12 pm:

Great videos, both. Back in the mid 1990's wife and I looked at a property in Parker Station, NH. Was a run down farmhouse on a couple of acres but included was a very cool 1/8th scale railroad with tracks and trestles traversing the property. Had at least one locomotive (of unknown power source) and a couple of box cars and flat beds. Wife couldn't see past the crumbling homestead. Bummer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 01:01 am:

Harold,
Yeah, caught my attention, but I was trying to not interrupt! :-)
One of my folk's best friends in Dunsmuir was Carl Nelson, Special Agent for the SP. One of his prized items was a photo of him on a private car platform with FDR. He also had one with JFK too.
Yeah, the strange "toots" I hear in Downtown Oroville always get my attention. I probably don't even "hear" the proper grade crossing blows!
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By grady l puryear on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 10:08 am:

Man, there are many and many an hour of machine shop time represented here, look at all the detail! At my age, I miss a lot of things, and I think I miss Steam and Model T's equally. My maternal Grandparents had a small store in the middle of nowhere, a train track ran through the middle of their Ranch and close to the Store, which also contained the Post Office. The train would blow his whistle several miles north so we could meet them and swap the mail sack, they just slowed down a bit. If they had any freight or Express, like a box of baby chickens, or if they had us a block of ice, or maybe they just wanted to get a soda water and visit a bit, they would stop for awhile. They would let me get up in the cab and blow the whistle, what a memory! Can you imagine a train doing that now?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 10:41 am:

Grady, it's wonderful to see you back! You've been missed.

Yes, life is much more regimented and regulated now in many ways. About thirty years ago I took a train ride up Copper Canyon in Chihuahua. I was able to go forward from the passenger cars, meet the engineers, and sit on the front of the locomotive to take pictures with my feet dangling over the front as we rolled along the tracks. I never could have got away with that here in the lawyered-up USA.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By grady l puryear on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 12:20 pm:

It's not my place to run the train,
The whistle I can't blow

Its not my place to say how far
The trains allowed to go

Its not my place to shoot off steam
Nor even ring the bell

But let the d__n thing jump the track
And see who catches Hell!

Or words to that effect, and how well I remember riding the Train through Barranca del Cobre, visiting with the Raramuri Indians, looking for abandoned silver mines, lots of tales to be told about the old Mexico when it was relatively safe to go there into the wilds. I even remember a Model T or two in the town of Creel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 02:35 pm:

Grady - You didn't have to say,..."or words to that effect". That's almost word for word, exactly how I've always heard it. I've heard that called "The Conductor's Lament", but I think it has other names too.

My Dad (switchman/conductor) had one that I sure wish I could have (or would have) talked him into writing down. Dad worked for the IHB RR in the Chicago area (Indiana Harbor Belt RR) and a busy little railroad it was! Most of his RR career was before the advent of the two-way radio and there were phone boxes all over the railroad for communication with the dispatcher. Because this little 38 mile belt line connected with all Chicago railroads, needless to say there was a lot of intricate switching, interchange with other railroads, etc. and for that reason, a typical trip across that little pike usually involved a lot of stopping and waiting, and communication with the dispatcher. Before radios, there were little "phone boxes" mounted about waist -high on a post, all over the IHB and most consisted of a simple box about the size and shape of a large kitchen cupboard, the front of which could be unlocked and lifted up and temporarily supported in a horizontal position over your head which afforded a very (very) limited amount of protection from the elements while you called the dispatcher.

Anyway, Dad had a "poem" that I sure wish I could remember better, however, it was "colorful" to the point that I only heard it from him a couple times, and then never when my Mom was around,.......well,.......you get the idea. I only remember how it started out.........

"I am the Conductor
master of my train
head inside a phone box
a$$ out in the rain......"

Anyway, in the rare chance that anybody ever heard that whole thing, I sure would like to hear, or have a copy of the rest of that.......

Yeah, railroading was hard work and very dangerous (still is) but those "ol' timers" had a lot of fun too,.......harold

P.S. As long as "rambling" on this thread is probably not irritating any "died-in-the-wool" Model T guys, I just thought of another one of my Dad's "favorites",......and to appreciate this one, you have to visualize an old time conductor, wearing the customary "bib overalls" with the "bib" portion containing the little pockets for RR approved pocket watch, pens, pencils, etc., and at least one of those pencils had to have a union button on it,......you get the "picture".

Anyway, the official RR Rulebook definition of a train used to be (maybe still is, I don't know).......

"An engine, with or without cars, displaying markers".

My Dad's definition of a Conductor was.....

"An %*#*@&!, with or without brains, displaying pencils"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 03:36 pm:

Harold,
Still is (Engine with or without cars, displaying markers) -- At least AFAIK! Admittedly, I haven't been doing anything with trains (except toy ones) for quite a few years now!
I've heard your Dad's definition of the Big Ox before (or Blue Ox, depending on your region). Ah well, you know the conductor's job is just a "crummy" one!
Highball!
Toooot Toooot! (2 longs)
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 04:52 am:

This thread reminds me of my early childhood years in a small railroad town in N.W. MO. in the early Fifties. The town(about 90 people in it at the time) is on a highway crossing and the trains always sound their horn when going through. We never heard them, or felt them(the ground would shake as they traveled through) at night. The local Post Office(my Dad was a Rural Mail Carrier at the time) would hang a mail bag on a post so the train could grab it as it went by. One time, for some reason, they missed it, and the mail went flying every where. I remember the Postmaster walking around retrieving all of the mail. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 09:27 am:

Ground shaking takes me back to 1951 when I was ten. Mom and my little brother and I took the train to Kansas. (Dad had to work.) We went out to Fullerton to catch the train. I had seen lots of trains, but this was the first time I had ever been up close to a locomotive, and it seemed huge and a little scary as it rolled into the station and I felt the ground shake. We weren't wealthy. Dad drove a ten-year-old bare bones Plymouth with no radio, heater, or any other extras, and the folks always watched their pennies. But apparently we were better off than some folks, because we rode in an air conditioned passenger car. For me that train ride was a lesson in economic classes. Rolling through the Arizona desert I left our air conditioned car and went for a walk to explore the train. I found the cars without AC had the windows up and the hot desert air blowing in, and a lot of the passengers were soldiers, sailors, and black folks. I don't think I had any opinion on this, but I did notice it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 11:48 am:

I wonder how many hours of machining went into building the little Shay traction engine?, There is a full size in a community south of here that was used to haul logs out of the Smoky Mountains before it was a park, it still runs and moves.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene Adams on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 12:02 pm:

David mentioned a Leslie horn.

http://www.dieselairhorns.com/collection.html
&
http://locomotivehorns.info/leslie/index.shtml

On ebay
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=leslie+horn

Have at it >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V5n0M3bDzk Check some of the side videos.

Gene


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 12:28 pm:

Any of you steam folks need a small brass Lukinhimer steam whistle ? I have one can't use it on my T $200... + shipping.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Haworth - El Centro, CA. on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 03:33 pm:

Rick
The Shay engines at Cass Scenic Railway in West Virginia are well documented on youtube.

Search Cass trains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TbsbcZKCWDY

Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 03:57 pm:

There's a little short line here in NW WA. that has a pretty neat assortment of logging type engines, including a Shay. The Mount Rainier Scenic RR, besides a neat little Porter 2-8-2 Mikado, they have a Shay, a Climax and a Heisler. That's just about every known type of typical logging engine. They all have the same basic traits in common, slow, powerful, and spread their weight out over a long section of usually typically poor and sometimes rather temporary track constructed out of very light rail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 04:08 pm:

Ooops,....forgot one other common "trait" that's necessary on logging engines,......"flexible". Some of that quickly and "economically" built track has some pretty tight curves!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 04:27 pm:

Harold
The Mount Rainier RR also had a Fordson tractor that ran on logs laid down for rails, last time I heard it was being restored , that was a few years ago. I have pictures some where.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 04:32 pm:

Bob - A classic case of....."do the best ya' can with watcha' got", huh?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 02:16 pm:

My grandfather and uncle were railroad men who worked in the freight office and yard in Taunton, MA. I rode the last steam passenger train into Boston and the last Cape Codder from Taunton Ma to (you guessed it) Cape Cod. Amtrack now has a Cape Codder but it isn't the same.

I got to ride in the switch engine that put together the freight trains in the yard so the cars went to the correct place. (I believe it was called humping because the cars were allowed to roll down hill to get onto the correct track.)

Edaville RR in Carver Ma has a narrow gage steam RR that went through cranberry bogs was a great place to see Christmas decorations. It went out of business years ago but I understand that it is coming back.

There is nothing like the sound and smell from a steam locomotive. - just like there is nothing like the sound and smells of a Model T! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 03:40 pm:

Hey, What about 1889 steam boats, they smell and make noises too ! They even have self generating carbide lamps. Simply drip water on the chrystals and light them off.


Tink



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o44OcKaQga4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 10:38 pm:

Frank,
And you don't have to lay track to run 'em!
Fred,
Yep, "Humping" -- one of the best jokes around is a copy of a sign for a fragile load car; "Do not Hump!" placed somewhere out of context.
T'ake care,
David D.


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