Starting problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Starting problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Schultz-Rathbun on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 07:55 pm:

I just got the engine back in the 26 roadster and got it running... sort of.

The car starts fine when it's cold, but when you shut it off, it won't restart when it's warm. The only way I can get it to start is to tow it for a block or two, then it runs very poorly for a minute or two, then smooths out and runs fine.

The car has coils, runs fine on mag or battery, and has a Ford NH carburetor.

Any ideas what to check?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rowles on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 08:09 pm:

You say "just got the engine back in".....what was done to it while out? I wonder if the valves are not closing fully when hot. I would check compression ( either with a gauge or just by thumb-in-the-plug-hole) when it is hot and refuses to start. If compression is OK, check to see if carburetor is leaking internally or float level set too high causing flooding with fuel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Schultz-Rathbun on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 08:32 pm:

The engine and transmission were totally rebuilt. My thumb won't take that much heat when hot, so maybe a gauge would be a good idea!

How do I check the carb for internal leaks, and set the bowl? When I towed it to start, it acted flooded at first, lots of popping out of the tail-pipe. I actually blew the muffler apart on my first attempt at tow-starting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 09:19 pm:

Do you shut the gas off when you shut down the engine?
Just curious because I don't but I know my carbs are all OK.
I think William got it........sounds like WAY too much fuel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Schultz-Rathbun on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 10:46 pm:

First couple of times I just turned the key off. Last time I shut off the fuel at the strainer and let it run dry. Turned the fuel back on, it coughed once, but then ran the battery down and still no start. It's on the charger again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 12:46 am:

Randy,
Have you adjusted the air/fuel mixture? It may run better a litter richer when cold then warm. If it is way off or if it was not adjusted where it is running good, it will not start good if at all.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Schultz-Rathbun on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 12:52 am:

I did try to adjust the mixture, I had it running at it's best setting when warm, turned the ignition off, retarded the spark, and tried to start. No luck. I've begun to suspect the carburetor. It looks to me like it's never been rebuilt. There's a groove around the float needle, so I suspect it's not seating. Time for a carb rebuild?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 01:45 am:

A small groove doesn't necessarily mean it's shot.
Leaving the gas turned on and finding a puddle of gas on the ground under the carburetor means it's shot.
On all four of my T's I never have to fiddle with the needle adjustment but I DO need to give them the quickest of chokes, no matter the weather, when starting.
Only the '19 touring likes a little choke for a few minutes and then it's fine too.
What condition was your gas tank in before you put gas in it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 01:47 am:

Randy,
Yes, probably a carb rebuild or find one to switch out and see what happens.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 10:19 am:

Randy:

If you are unfamiliar with T's be advised that because of the updraft of the gas vapor from the carb through the intake and then into the cylinders, you need to choke a T to get it to start unless you are restarting it rather soon after shutting it off. T's will typically NOT start while you are holding the choke out but will fire when you let go of the choke while it is cranking over. If you haven't tried it that way - that makes a difference. Also look with mirror into the carb intake and make certain that the choke is in fact completely closing since sometimes the linkage it installed incorrectly and the choke butterfly is not closing all the way. This may not be your total problem at the moment but for sure it will eventually be necessary to make the choke work correctly to get it to start reliably. Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 11:19 am:

I resisted jumping in too early but it seems you're obviously "losing" something after shutting down hot. Vapor lock? Fuel line too close to the exhaust pipe? Really does sound like fuel/carb problem. Don't see what towing has to do with starting except maybe letting it cool off longer. I'd rule out compression too. If it's low when hot it'll be lower when cold resulting in a no start when cold too. Just to rule out ignition if you get into this situation again have an assistant crank it over and check for spark at the plugs but again, it sounds like a fuel problem. I would also check the tank/cap vent.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Schultz-Rathbun on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 02:01 pm:

Starting by towing lets me crank it over for way longer than my battery will last, let alone my left arm. The fuel line isn't near the exhaust, it's getting plenty of fuel. Too much fuel, I think. I did blow the muffler apart after using the choke while towing it. I tried the momentary choke thing, no results. Erich Bruckner lives nearby, has done a few NH carbs, and has volunteered to give me a hand.
It ain't the space shuttle, we'll figure this out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Schultz-Rathbun on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 02:53 pm:

I found the problem. I checked and the float is turning off the fuel, the choke is completely closing, and it's got plenty of fuel. I started it cold, let it warm up, shut it off, tried to start again, got nothing. While cranking in the quiet of my garage, I didn't hear coils buzzing. I jumped from a hot lead to the coils and she fired right up. For some reason, when she's hot, the ignition switch isn't consistently making contact in the battery position. So I won't rebuild the carburetor, I'll rebuild the ignition switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 03:03 pm:

Way to go! Nice save.......be sure to check the wires at the terminal block too! If you have an original block those old wood screws probably won't EVER stay tight.
I have to put a new terminal block on my '29 coupe too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 04:32 pm:

Randy,

You have proved that once again 90% of Carb problems are electrical.

Or is it the other way around....

:-)

Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 06:27 pm:

and that explains blowing out the muffler! turning off the ignition on a downhill, retarding the spark, and turning it back on guarantees a loud bang! I got stopped by a local officer of the law when I did it a few years ago. I know it was childish, but I felt like a kid in my T!! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Schultz-Rathbun on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 02:47 pm:

Fortunately there were no cops in the neighborhood. Loud is an understatement! The muffler was repairable, after a little work with a ball peen hammer and a pipe used as a form. Now, how easy is it to rebuild the switch?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 08:03 pm:

Randy:

A word of caution. When working on the ignition switch it is easy to accidentally cross the MAG wire to the BAT wire and that can damage your magneto inside the motor by discharging the magnets in there. Be sure and remove a battery cable as the very first thing you do before you pull the switch or start to move any wires around.


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