Electrical Question - setup recommendation

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Electrical Question - setup recommendation
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 10:23 am:

Hello all, so here is my conundrum:

I have a 1914 T with a 6 volt hot shot battery and the diode-lightbulb magneto charging setup. It's small, unobtrusive and very effective for starting the car on battery and then switching over to magneto to run and drive. The small battery also does a nice job at letting me toot my 6 volt ahooga horn. This is all fine and dandy until it starts to get a little dark outside because I didn't start the drive home soon enough.

I have Corcoran gas headlamps that I believe are original to the car. My grandfather installed a conversion kit in them so that they hold 6 volt sealed beam electric headlights. The hotshot battery does not like to power these for very long before they start getting really dim, and it also sucks the battery wayyyy down.

So what's the answer here? I'd really like to be able to start the car, toot the horn, and run the headlights when I need to and not worry that they'll be super dim and the battery sucked dry by the time I make it home. At the same time, I don't want a generator on the engine.

What I'd like to do ultimately is get the headlamps back to gas burning status, but they need reflectors and burners and glass and just to be rebuilt in general. Also, I don't have a carbide generator (the ones I've found seem to be a bit cost prohibitive, $1,000+) even when I get the lamps up to snuff. I really like the this http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/4738 conversion kit, except that it's 12 volt (AUGH!!).

If I could find burner-bulbs like those in 6 volt, I was thinking I might could get another hotshot battery and wire them in parallel, or have one dedicated to starting and the horn, and the other dedicated to the lamps, and have the magneto charge both of them while I drive. This at least would be a significantly cheaper alternative to getting a carbide generator. Plus on the generator I've heard mixed reviews, some people say the lamps are dim and the thing is a mess to deal with, other people say the lights are brighter than any electric lights you've seen and it's a piece of cake.

Thanks for any input!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 10:36 am:

You can always run gas lamps off of a acetylene tank. The small motorcycle ones are easy to conceal or you can mount a larger one on the running board as was done by many in the day. As far as converting back to gas lamps, all of the parts are available from the parts suppliers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 10:52 am:

Seth,

You could try a Optima gel cell battery in place of the Hot Shot. That would give you more juice for a longer time.

As far as the gas lamps I'm in the same boat. (1914 speedster project)

Unless I can score a decent gas generator for a good price I have been thinking of using 6 volt LEDs mounted in place of the gas burner. The super brights with 60 leds on the single bulb may put out enough light. I think I may have a source for replacement GLASS mirrors/reflectors instead of the metal replacements. If that works they will be much better at reflecting the light which I think would be much like the gas flame of the original burners.

The LEDS would be the way to go if they could work, very high output with little current draw.
And 6 volt. :-)

Here's the link to the bulbs:
http://classicautobulbs.com/6volt.html
Scroll down to look at the LED bulbs.

Good luck.

Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 11:33 am:

The LED's mentioned and a dedicated light battery is your cheapest answer. Doesn't sound like you want or need to do night driving but get caught out on occasion. It'll give you time to figure out else you want to do which may be nothing if it works out well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 12:12 pm:

I just emailed the folks at Veteran Auto Lamps about restoring my headlamps. I'll see what they say in terms of a ballpark cost estimate. http://www.veteranautolamps.com/

That's really cool on the LED lights, that might be the ticket right there. I think the only thing that'd you'd have to come up with would be a way to mount the receptacle for the bulb onto the gas burner mount. I think that may be the route I take, get a way to mount those 12V LED lights on the burner mount, and then get a 12V deep cycle Optima battery that I can just hook up to the charger when I get home.

SWEET, this is why I ask questions here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 12:22 pm:

Hmmm. All of the sockets that I can find that will hold those LEDs are kinda big. I may have to find a way to mount that socket in the base of the headlamp.

If I hide that 12V deep cycle battery, it'd also let me bring my GPS along . . . interesting.

Although ultimately I'd really like to stay as old school as possible and get a carbide generator. The craziest I'd like to get with that is to hide a small acetylene tank inside something that looks like a carbide generator. The idea with the battery is to have something right now that's cheaper and will keep me safer on the road. Again, thanks for the ideas and input.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 12:33 pm:

To top it all off Seth I don't think you'll be happy with gas lighting after those LED's. Think of those mag powered head lights going bright & dim with engine speed being considered an improvement over gas and you'll get the idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 01:27 pm:

Seth - most celphones, Smartphones and GPS's run on batteries under 6V so they may be if not charged then kept on top with 6V - or rather the 7.2V you have on a charged battery.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 01:58 pm:

Well, if I want really bright headlights that light up the road, I'll drive my F-150. I just want other people to be able to see me at dusk when I'm scootin' home. Right now I'm more worried about ruining my hotshot battery than anything else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 02:13 pm:

Actually the carbide headlamps are much brighter than magneto lamps. The main drawback of the gas lamps is the cost of the carbide and the need to clean out the spent carbide after every use. It also is a hassle trying to load the carbide, assemble the generator and light the lamps in pitch darkness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 05:47 pm:

Carbide lights on Constantine's 13:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 06:07 pm:

The hot shot battery charger can charge pretty much any size battery 6V or 12V but it will put out less current to a 12V battery than to a 6V battery. Unless you drive at night a lot your simplest fix for headlights is just a larger battery. It is unfortunate that the make of the the "burner" type halogen bulbs chose a huge wattage bulb that quickly runs the battery down. The pair I think draw more than 100 watts total. No real need for such bright lights and most of these kits suffer from good mechanical fit to a bad electrical choice. You also have to return the burner thing to the maker to have the bulbs replaced if those are the ones I think they are.

LED's are very directional and do not have the typical large disbursement of light in all directions as do regular bulbs so a bit of engineering is going to have to take place at the electrical level as well as the mechanical level in order to get something that actually makes it safe to drive with. If an oncoming car is coming at you from an angle he may not see your highly directional headlights if you have not done the job right. I don't know if any LED setup is actually being used yet on any modern car for lights. It clearly is a nice thing to look forward to but be careful that you can be seen from the side view with your lights on since once you move to the side - the LED light is often then gone away. The LED arrays look impressive but you have to make sure they will actually work as headlights and not just as a bright light source that is impressive because you are directly in line with its light beam.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 08:11 pm:

I don't think you can do what you want to do the way you want to do it.

My experience with LEDs is that they just don't have the power to serve as headlights. They're being improved all the time so if your interested in going this way, buy a LED bulb, fit it to a headlight and try it. If your happy with the light output, I still doubt if you will power them long with that little battery.

Why not install a regular 6 volt wet cell battery? You could still power it from the mag and if most of your driving is during the day, it should be able to recharge even a big battery for your limited use of the headlights at night.

On those rare occurances when you want to use your lights a lot, a low amperage charger used during the day would recharge the battery enough for close to a full nights driving.

Probably your cheapest solution.

Cheers
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 11:36 pm:

Seth,
For headlights and firing the coils for initial starting, then switch to mag, on my 15 I put a small 12v gel battery under the back seat. Ground wire(not cable) to frame. Positive wire to battery terminal on coilbox, then to light switch then to single contact headlights. With good reflectors and 12v bulbs I can see fine at night (I have to remember to put kerosene in my tail light). Haven't used the lights over half hour at a time, but there was no noticeable dimming. I don't have a charging system, just charge battery occasionally. Out of sight, cheap and works well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 04:24 am:

John is correct about LED lights being highly directional. The better ones for use in stop/tail lights have a set of LEDs facing to the rear, and then a ring of LEDs around those to throw light to the side so that they can be seen from the side.

To work in a headlight, you would need both these arrays and another set facing the rear to make use of the parabolic reflector in the headlamp. I know of no such beast as yet. By the way, don't ask how I know LEDs have to be hooked up in one particular way or they will not light up!

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth H. Spratlin on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 01:05 pm:

If you check out the link that Larry posted when originally mentioning LEDs as an option, it's actually a small post with 30 LEDs facing all 360 degrees on a single "bulb."

For now I think what I'm going to do is just get a better 6 volt battery and let the magneto charge. Once I get the headlamps rebuilt for gas I'll get an MC size acetylene bottle. Eventually I'll get a carbide generator, but it'll probably just have to wait a while.

Again, thanks for the input.


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