Removing races

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Removing races
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 02:37 pm:

Hey guys.. I'm trying to replace the wheel bearings in the front wheels. I looked in the service manual and in the bulletin book. I don't see how to remove the old races.

Is there a race remover, like a wheel puller? or, Am I supposed to try and find a tool that will reach point "A"? Is the part indicated by point "B" part of the hub?

Thanks again!

Michael

Can you tell I busy working on my t these days? ;-)races


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By don ellis on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 02:49 pm:

The easiest way is the wire welder trick. Run a bead around the inside and it will fall out.Not much for reusing though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 02:53 pm:

Don....I don't have a welder. I do have an Oxy/Acet torch though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 03:04 pm:

You can use a punch and hammer to remove them. You may have to get them started buy using a long screwdriver and a hammer before switching to a punch.

That is why the slot is there. You put the punch or screwdriver at the opposite opening of the hub so it goes through the hub at a diagonal.

I removed a good set of races from tight hubs last week using the method above (they were NOS that my dad had installed 60 years ago - they have low miles so I'm keeping them).

You may also find out that the races are actually loose in the hubs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 03:20 pm:

The below 2010 thread will help you see a cross-section of the wheel and what Ford recommended: www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/178671.html.

Also, go to www.mcmaster.com and type "slide hammer pullers" in the search box. These are great for pulling gears and bearing races, if there is enough room to get the out-turned hooks under the protruding edge. A very versatile tool, which has served me well over the years, it comes with both out-turned and in-turnded hooks. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 03:47 pm:

If you use the punch method, Give it a blow on one side then alternate to the other side etc to keep it going straight. It should come out easily.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By don ellis on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 03:48 pm:

Another excuse to go to the tool store


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 04:19 pm:

I would like to hear more about Don's welder trick. I don't want to punch any more races out because of potential damage to the thin wall threaded area for the hub cap. I damaged it one time and had difficulty correcting the threaded area for the cap. The puller idea mentioned was great until I found out the puller was so expensive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By don ellis on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 04:43 pm:

Just run a bead around the circumference in the flat where the bearings run. It will make the circle shrink. Turn it over and it will fall out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 04:48 pm:

Never used a wire welder........but welding is the answer to removing bearing cups.
Let cool or quench and most times they'll fall out....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 05:28 pm:

Thinking out loud. If you put an ice cube in the race cavity would it not cause the race to contract, then heat the hub threads which would expand the housing holding the race, would that make it easier to remove the race? Might be worth considering. Jim Patrick

PS. I've had my slide hammer puller for 40 years so I was not aware they were so expensive. Some rental places have a good collection of tools and you might be able to rent a slide hammer puller, or possibly get one from a pawn shop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 05:42 pm:

The punch method + alternating back and forth is your best bet. If you have welding experience I suppose that method works too but if you're a novice and you weld the race to the hub or even get splatter on the inside of the hub you're screwed. Races are still removed using those slots on modern cars because it works. Just support the wheel on some 2X 4's to keep the threads for the hubcap off the concrete. Use a soft punch, like brass, to drive the new one in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 06:29 pm:

Carefully removing the races with a punch is not a big deal.

You don't have to pound the heck out of the race. You just want to move it a little bit at a time and alternate the location of the punch. It's not about brute force.

Just make sure the business end of the punch is flat, not mushroomed so dress up the end of it if necessary. Same goes if you start out with a screwdriver.

When I've done it, I held the wheel between my legs as shown in figure 382 of the Model T Service manual. That makes it easier to make sure the punch is making good contact with the race and aids in gauging the progress of the race as it travels out of the hub.

If you absolutely feel you need to buy another tool to accomplish this, here is a cheaper alternative to a puller:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/51647.html?1207011610

ALSO - if I remember correctly, years ago when I watched my dad install a new set of races he used a block of hardwood and hammer until the top of the race was flush with the hub. After that, he took an old race, held it upside down and put it face to face with the new race and finished the job by hammering around the perimeter of the old race.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 06:58 pm:

Here's how I remove them with a puller that I modified. Harbor Freight Puller with 2 notches ground on the center piece to keep the jaws in place. Then use a drift on the back side to tap out with a hammer. It's never failed yet.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 09:01 pm:

It's not too hard to punch out the races, just fab up a tool to do it.



Here is a commercial tool of the era.



Making up in the garage tools to work on your Ford is half the fun.. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 09:52 pm:

These suckers are coming out tomorrow..one way or the other!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 04:17 am:

Michael, just use your torch and heat the races red hot and then let them cool. They will most likely fall on their own. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 02:37 pm:

punch them out :-) WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!!! I almost lost an eye when a chunk of an pneumatic chisel tip broke off O.o


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 09:14 pm:

Nathan's right. They are very hard/brittle and chip easily. Like I said earlier use some thing soft (brass ?) when driving them back in. I wouldn't use the old race as suggested above for 2 reasons: It's as hard as the new race making chipping likely and if the old race jambs in the hole you've got no way to remove it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 09:22 pm:

Especially in this case, you don't want to reuse the old one. If you look at the picture, you can see it's cracked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 10:17 pm:

Yes, I was surprised it was cracked! I was able to get them all out..now to blasing/priming, and painting!


Thanks Guys!

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Ehlke on Friday, August 24, 2012 - 10:26 pm:

I work as a mechanic in heavy equiptment shop so changing bearing races is something I do a bit. I used to use hardened punches but after damaging a few we were supposed to reuse I changed tactics a bit.

Copper clad grounding rod is softer than the race and will hold up to driving them out. I have to redress the ends after every one. No more punch marks where the race sets to sand out either.

Its not a great tool but I prefer a throwaway tool than buying new parts when possible. I imagine that with the relative rarity of usable original parts this might apply to classic cars also.


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