Steering system, One More Time

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Steering system, One More Time
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 01:06 am:

Since reading Royce's very informative thread on Model T steering systems, I've become much more motivated to investigate what's in my '12 Touring. With Royce's help, I've determined that only the tie rod is of the wrong year.

My car has about equal turning radius in both directions, and doesn't go "over center" in either direction. From what I can see, the real problem would be if the early car had a late type, shorter pittman arm. Then it no doubt would be able to go over center.

The other thing of interest is that the steering arms (at the hubs) appear to be the travel stops. If you look at the photos below you will be able to see the steering arms hard against the axle ends when the steering is at each extreme. I wonder if anyone has looked at the Meek's car to see if the steering arms are bent from slamming against the stops ? That would certainly confirm whether the front end went lock-to-lock.

First picture is RH side with the wheels full right. Note steering arm solidly against axle.
RH steering arm with wheels full right.  Note arm solidly against axle.

Second picture is LH side with the wheels full left. Note steering arm solidly against axle.
LH steering arm with wheels full left.  Note arm solidly against axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 01:25 am:

And here are two pictures of the pittman arm. first picture is with steering full right. Second picture is with steering full left. Pittman arm is not over center in either extreme. But if it were a short pittman, I bet it would be over center.

Steering full right.
right

Steering full left
left


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 12:54 pm:

If you had a 1926 drag ling it would most likely overcenter when turning right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 01:07 pm:

A club member's car that is in my garage goes over center and we will be investigating what parts it has and reporting here.

It is a 1913 Touring that was put together in the 60s by his grandfather from a pile of parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 01:09 pm:

Thought I should add this link

Why does my steering go over center?

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/300409.html?1343448969


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 06:17 pm:

Dick F,
While you are correct in that the spindle arms are supposed to prevent the steering from going too far in either direction. Do not be so sure yours could not go over-center. In your third photo above, you show the pitman arm up close to the frame rail for a maximum right turn. The kicker is that if you were on a rough road or hit a pothole at a moderate speed, the recoil could shift the spring shackles and front axle to the left enough that the pitman arm may be able to go on over. On many Ts, the pitman arm will hit the frame before it can go over. And you will be safe. On some Ts, especially early ones but any year can do it if everything is not totally right, the pitman arm can clear the frame rail and that is when they go over. The pitman arm winds up forward and sort of above the steering column shaft.
In your photos, the pitman arm is further up (or flatter out) to the left (right turn) than it is in going to the right (left turn). The angle really should be equal in both directions.
I do not wish to scare you or anyone else. I try to keep my Ts as close to their correct vintage as I reasonably can. I have never had a T that did not have model T steering. Nor do I ever intend to. But I do want to help inform people and encourage safety as well as authenticity.
An additional test I would recommend. With the car sitting (of course), disconnect the drag link from the tie rod. Now run the steering wheel and pitman arm as far as it can go in both directions. Find out if the pitman arm or the drag link will hit the engine or pan well before it gets high enough to go over. Follow them both to see if either the arm or the drag link hit the frame well before the pitman arm can go around. Always remember. If it is close to going around/over, everything bends and gives a little under stress. And that can make a difference in a bad direction.
If you are concerned. Several people have made simple angle iron stop brackets for the pitman arm to hit before reaching the danger area. They are easy to make. Easy to install. Do not look bad. And easy to remove later if you or a future caretaker so desire. Pictures were posted of some on this site a year or two ago. But I do not have the computer skills to find them. One last word of caution. If you make such brackets and mount them on your T. Make sure they do not cause a new problem like restricting your steering and reducing the turning radius.
Please, drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 12:49 am:

Thanks for the insights, Wayne. It's the tie rod that is not correct for that year car. I'll take another look at how much pittman arm overtravel margin I have and also see where it would contact the frame.

I do intend to replace the tie rod with the correct type.

Dick


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