Title has wrong year

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Title has wrong year
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Fox on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 12:00 pm:

Hello all:

I just bought a nice 1921 Speedster with a title. The engine serial number comes back as a 1923 car. Obviously, the body could be a 1921 with a 1923 engine in. I got it out of state. Should I just leave the title alone or change it to match year of motor?

Thanks!
Ryan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen Blancard on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 12:10 pm:

I'm new here, but I can tell you my experience not 2 hours ago. I went to the Virginia DMV today to register and title my new touring car. The old title said 1922. But the engine number is 1924, as well as other features of the car. I printed out 2 different model T serial number tables from the web and took them to the DMV, along with a photo of my engine number. To make a long story short, I have a new 1924 title for the car, so all is well. But every state is different so you 'll need to check with your DMV on how hard it is to correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 12:20 pm:

Since it's a speedster, I would not be concerned.

Even without seeing the car, my guess is the body was made in the last 30 years, not the 1920s.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 03:18 pm:

there were a lot of engine swaps during the days of the T. The shop had a bunch of rebuilt engines ready to go and they simply did an exchange. Today the engine number controls the year so you could have a 1908 water pump T with a late engine with transmission hogs head holes and it would be titled as a 1927.

Don't sweat it, I just registered my 1889 steam boat with the California DMV and because the engine was built in 1939 my boat is a 1939 vessel. They did not have a hull registration number back in the olden days so they went with the engine date.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 05:25 pm:

Frank,

How about posting a picture of your steamboat.

Thanks,

Ted


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 05:40 pm:

If the title shows the same serial number that you have on the engine, don't worry about it. A speedster is not a correct car from the factory, but it is a combination of parts built up with a custom body on it. You could get the year changed to match the engine number but it is a lot of trouble and it just makes waves. So If it were mine, I would keep it as it is.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. J. "Art" Bell on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 05:50 pm:

Ted
Here is Frank's 'Steam Boat' thread.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/297562.html

Regards
Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 06:45 pm:

I agree that the correct serial number is not so much a big deal with a speedster, however, if you are bound and determined to have everything match, do what Stephen Blancard did in his above post. I did exactly the same thing at a Texas DMV and got the same results. My grandfather took out the original motor in his 27 coupe sometime before 1951 and replaced it with a 22 block, but used the original transmission, pan, and most other parts. During a recent restoration, I replaced the 22 block with a correct 27 block and changed the number on the title to match.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 08:04 pm:

Ten minutes on the water is worth an hour in any of our T's . . . . sorry but it really is a thrill to go to sea with steam. It's just different and you don't see yourself coming home on the other side of the street. The best part is if the engine doesn't shift when you change direction you simply kick the flywheel with your left foot and away it goes.


Tink


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Fox on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 02:16 am:

Thanks guys! I will just leave it alone. I'm just glad it has a title! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:17 am:

When I bought my 27 Tudor the title said 1928. Obviously (for those of us in the know anyway), there's no such thing as a 1928 Model T. My car had the original engine in it and it matched the frame number. It was a simple 'typo' on the title, or at least you would think it was.
I brought documentation that confirmed that the car was made on Feb. 6th 1927 (thanks to the guys here) but none of that mattered to the 'bureaucrats'. I did a title search on the car and found it was a 27 when it left Georgia a couple decades earlier and it became a 28 when it was titled in Florida.
To make a long story short, the only way I finally got it straitened out was when the DMV figured out that the car was once owned by the director of the Sarasota DMV. When that little tid bit of information came out, they made an appointment with me to correct 'their' mistake. Though I still have the original engine (in a crate) the engine in the car doesn't match the frame number, so it's important that the title be correct in every way, should the day ever come that I decide to sell it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:42 am:

Dennis, your story demonstrates that many people live their lives unafflicted by simple competence.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 09:57 am:

Don't I know it Steve. I doubt there's anybody here that has been to a DMV office at least one in their lives without hearing the words, "Well, I'll have to talk to my supervisor". I wasn't getting anywhere at all until I finally ran into a gal that was close to my age and knew what a Model T was without having to 'google' it.
On the other side of the coin, I figured that registering my 60 Rambler was going to be a real nightmare because I had to provide pictures of it but I went right through. I guess they figured that all 1960 Ramblers had a chopped top, a flame paint job, no door handles and a Chevy V8 engine in them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:17 am:

Good decision Ryan. The old saying, "Best to let sleeping dogs lie.", says it best in this case. Even an expert would have trouble discerning between a 1921 and 1923, so why bring it to the attention of a bored, paper pushing, bureaucrat who would like nothing better than to kick the dog and ruin your day. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

"I just bought a nice 1921 Speedster with a title. The engine serial number comes back as a 1923 car. Obviously, the body could be a 1921 with a 1923 engine in. I got it out of state. Should I just leave the title alone or change it to match year of motor?".
Does the title match the engine number? If not, there's another way out of this. It's not exactly 'Kosher' but it's been done before. Buy a set of stamps and stamp the title number into the top of the right side frame rail near the emergency brake cross shaft, like the 26-27 cars have.
Your average DMV employee doesn't know that pre-26 Fords didn't have a frame number.

Depending on the rules in your state, an inspector may have to verify the number on the title and if the engine number doesn't match the title and there isn't a number on the car somewhere that does, you're going to have 'problems'. Naturally, you're going to want those freshly stamped numbers to get a little rusty so they don't look like they were stamped into the frame yesterday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 08:50 am:

Brush a little muriatic acid across the numbers if you want instant rust.

A Maryland resident just tried to get the title year corrected on a 1926 T bought in Virginia with a valid title (a very important issue here), but it was registered and titled as a 1925 in Virginia. The car and engine were clearly 1926 in all areas. The Maryland office told him that if he went back to Virginia and got the original title corrected, they would change the Maryland title. That cost would be $25 to re-issue a Maryland title. The Virginia title re-issue cost could be more or less. He decided the title was OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen Blancard on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 10:17 am:

When I was at the Virginia DMV the other day getting mine straight, they told me it was $10 to re-issue a new title. Not bad at all in my book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 12:06 pm:

When I got my "18 TT going in 2005 it had last been licensed in 1941. I had to sign a "Statement of Facts" documenting why it had not been registered for over 60 years, which was easy because it was my grandfathers truck.

However, although I'm 99% sure it's a 1918 truck, the engine serial number is a 1923 engine and, of course, there's no serial number on the chassis. I chose to just call it a 1923 because that's what I could easily document, and let it go at that. Even so, it was a little difficult to convince the DMV folks. If I had tried to use the actual 1918 year I probably would have never gotten it registered. (This is in California.)

So, my $.02 worth is forget it. It's not worth the trouble to correct. Furthermore, anyone who know's T's will know better anyhow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 10:45 pm:

Speaking of costs, the renewal for my '25 roadster came today, $97 for the year. Ain't Califunny great?? NOT!!
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Kramer on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 11:44 pm:

I live in Indiana and have three T's licensed here. All three have "unknown" listed as the model name. It seems Indiana doesn't recognize Henry's Model T as a legitimate model name for a car. Go figure.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration