Model T values are dropping like a rock

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Model T values are dropping like a rock
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:07 am:

Being the economics junkie that I am, I've been watching values closely for the last few years since the economy crapped out. While Model T's continue to bring decent money, prices are headed south in a hurry. Ebay is a great indicator on market sentiment (some would disagree) but in truth it is a good barometer. WHat other venue condenses so many model T's and parts in one location for review?

Considering this, I think we should prepare for much lower prices to come - as much as it pains us.

Here is a link to a 13 roadster that recently sold. The car isn't perfect, but you'd have never been able to buy this car on ebay two years ago for 12.6K. There have been multiple examples that have sold at far reduced values.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1913-Ford-Model-T-Car-/330768988639?forcev4exp=tr ue

It is what it is..... But make not mistake, there is no economic recovery ... POLITICAL COMMENT DELETED

You are now free to hurl your insults, rocks, and broken bottles... !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:19 am:

I think prices for antiques and collectibles in general are dropping. I have watched Victorian furniture for 40 years and adjusted for inflation I think prices are at an all time low. I think young people just aren't interested. I'm generalizing of course and I'm sure anecdotal evidence to the contrary abounds but a lot of kids don't even want to learn to drive. This was unimaginable 50 years ago. This economy doesn't help either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:26 am:

Well, not much of a problem for many of us here - quite the opposite, gives us remaining T lovers a chance to buy more objects. For our inheritors it might be a problem, though..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:27 am:

Hello James:
Good Point and well taken.
Since you have mentioned economics maybe you can add some numbers to the equation as what is the common age of Model T'ers.
The fact I would like to bring up is the age of the T people is going up.
We see it when people bring us engines for rebuilding.
Estimated average age is at least 60-80.
I don't see anyone in their 20's getting into Model T's-A's it's all 50-60's cars.

I forsee that unless something drastically changes there's not going to be any demand for Model T's and later Model A's.

These auto auctions have more or less killed the hobby by driving the prices through the roof.

When we started my brother and I bought a Model A for a couple thousand and restored it and could have bought a good running T for approximately the same. Model A went faster.
Our age at that time was 20 and 15 and we had done alot of repairing up to that point.
We had gotten the old car bug early in life growing up on a farm.

Since the economy is in the tank the last thing average people are going to be buying is an antique car. I know it's not just affecting Model T' as everyone who is selling a car is going to suffer the economic downturn.

Take your kids/grandkids to shows and get them interested in saving the past.

I Hate to sound like a commercial but fact is fact.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:35 am:

When I'm buying, I love low prices. If I'm trying to sell, then not so much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 08:44 am:

The interest in and prices for antiques are ever changing - if you want to earn money of your hobby you've got to change interests with the crowds.. Prices of clocks, copperware, stamps and coins were high in the 60's and 70's - now only very specific clocks, stamps and coins has high value for collectors and even 18:th century copperware has been observed being sold for scrap metal value here in Sweden. Young people and people with money still collects stuff, just not the same kind of stuff their parents and grandparents were collecting. Rare jazz 78's were much more expensive when the guys who were young in the 30's were still around - now rare rock 'n roll and rockabilly records are expensive - but don't plan on keeping such records as an investment, waiting 30 years until you sell them - they may be less valuable by then..

There are always those who wants the stuff for the love of it, but when some kind of stuff gets in demand a lot of other folks gets on the bandwagon - they're the ones that gets the price to raise, and when they follow the stream to the next thing in vogue, the prices fall.

A good rule is to collect only stuff you love, other stuff that has been in demand.. it just might not come up again in value in your lifetime..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 09:01 am:

Seems like a fair price for a non running '13 runabout. If it was running, driving and ready to tour it would be worth $5000 more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 09:14 am:

The internet, Ebay, etc., has driven the price of many collectables down. Items that used to be rare or hard to find are now as close as a click on the computer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 09:26 am:

The prices of most things 'old' and in 'collector' status where supply and demand are casual is near a 1998 level at present. May sound hard to believe, but holds true for things like furniture, paintings by the lesser artists, general toys and dolls, and the like. We can debate it all day long and find the exceptions here and there, but in the end without the exceptions, the 1998 view is generally true.

How do T's fare 'in general'? Hard to say because some of the better ones still trade at better than a 1998 level, the average ones seem to be a tad off, and the basket cases seem to now be in the area of a decade ago.

For the rest of us, the price of the repop parts has not slowed down, too many forces and they cost on average 30-40% more than they did when the century rolled over. With that, the 'choice' good original parts has also risen, but perhaps not as much. Our personal labor is still 'FREE'. :-)

So we have a good case of the 'ut-ohs' right now and where it will settle or grow is anyones guess...I say ut-oh' as many of us just buy and sell based on the emotion and the moment, it's only a hobby, it's what a buyer and seller are willing to do, yet a good portion also do sway with the wind and the tide as to value as an investment, people that I know, people that say 'I'd like one' and 'I'd like it' meaning 'that' one...and then turn turtle because they rationalize it 'might' be worth less next year. To each his own for sure, that's why we are all individuals and the actual answer for each side to all of this is what makes you feel good.

What's wrong with the economy is anyones guess. I have my own view, I'm sure there are others equally valid.

It's like the real estate for most of us who are 'boomers'...prices are extremely low. Fixed interest rates lower than even our parents were able to get. Those 'Gen X' and 'Gen Y' with sense and sensibility and half decent sensible credit can still qualify for a mortgage at 2.5 - 3.0 multiplier of annual earnings overnight...and yet no one is moving for what will be the deal of the century for their generation because they are still afraid the price will go even lower!

When it all clears, a good dose of inflation will be part of the actual recovery process, the price of new home stock built will still be closer to the old numbers because that can't be helped unless the trade labor is willing to work for 5 bucks an hour and they can't so the old stock will rise as it always has in step with the new...yet the Gen X and Gen Y gang can not see this diamond in the rough and that their actual cash in, and locked in at '3 something' as to interest will actually then leverage itself better than any 'Greatest Generation' was able to do as far as 'equity' growth once a stabilization and growth begins to take place.

This is a non-political response...it is what it is, applies to housing and to our T's...yet I'll also agree with the original poster...in many ways the numbers just don't seem to jive. A paradox perhaps...I was in D.C. this past weekend, and the horizon was loaded with sky-cranes to the level of any Asian city...this surprised me to no end, but somewhere in there I took it as a hopeful good sign.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 09:36 am:

I wish they'd drop a little more... I'd love to pick up a nice tour-ready Brass Touring for cheap!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 09:40 am:

Its too easy to piece together a model t from scavenged parts.

Since most T's dont have body numbers, or VIN numbers, its hard to declare any black era T original or factory assembled.

Also, T's are driven, wore out, repaired, driven, wore out and repaired multiple times.

They arent treated as precious cars.

This is all reflected in the pricing.

Its like having your great grandfathers axe..totally original except the head was replaced once and the handle three times.... LOL

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 09:47 am:

I don't see the drastic drop in this case. It's a non running car and a 2 seater besides. That cuts part of the market out right there. The 2 seat bit not the non running part. Paint, top, upholstery and body appear to be OK/useable as is. What would you expect to get if it ran and was a Touring? $15,000? The only thing it's really got going for it is the brass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike peterson on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:09 am:

HMMMMM i think i could have parted that out and made money !!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:15 am:

I tried selling non-T stuff on tbay recently, and was surprised at how few viewers there were.

Every election cycle I think the choice can't be worse than last time, but sure enough, it is.

POLITICAL COMMENT DELETED

Imagine a 50% top income tax rate, which we had back in the Kennedy era: a rich person or corporation either pays 50% of his income in taxes, or invests money in deductible things like more employees. If the investment doesn't work out, it's only cost him half.

Now, imagine a 0% income tax rate, which many of the rich pay today: any money invested on deductible things like more employees comes directly out of their wealth. Why gamble?

Our nation's economic problem is not taxes that are too high, but demand that is too low, because all the manufacturing jobs have gone to the ChiComs. The easiest way to turn this around would be 100% inspection of imports at our ports - paid by the importers.

The wealth we have sent to the ChiComs is coming back in investments here in things big and small. A huge theater chain is their latest. They won't be investing in old American stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Harold - Noblesville, IN on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:52 am:

When I bought my first car, a '26 Ford Coupe in '53, I paid $35 for it. The car was complete but well used, as in, needed everything.

I purchased my second old car in '61, a '27 Ford Tudor in about the same condition but paid $175 for it.

Once I had the Tudor restored, I had a shade over $2,000 in it. It was worth maybe $1,200 at the time. It was almost 20 years later before I could expect to get what I had in the car if I sold it.

Now, 50 years later, that same Tudor is worth about $10,000… maybe. It's a driver and not a show car. It's driven the year round, at least every Sunday, unless there is salt on the roads.

When I see similar cars in rough condition for sale at about $5,000 and figure what it will cost to restore the car, things have not really changed all that much. Considering inflation etc, it appears to me to be about the same as 50 years ago.

A Model T is not an investment for me. It's a fun vehicle to learn about and to play with. If I was looking for an investment vehicle, I'd go for a Packard or similar big originally expensive car.

There are too many Model Ts and too many Model T parts available for them to be considered an investment. They are a great entry level vehicle to the collector car hobby. I'd hate to see them become an exclusive and expensive investment.

Just an old man's thoughts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:12 am:

Ralph, I have a bank account in Europe and income over there goes into that account. On what basis do you assume I don't pay US tax on that income? Once I have received the income and declared it on a tax return, what difference does it make where I keep it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:36 am:

Maybe the Model T will qualify for Obama care!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:49 am:

Ralph,

I own a company. The company pays taxes and so do I.
Youre using a democratic talking point. Its false. I use the roads and the parks and everything else just like everyone else does, only i dont use welfare or other government give away programs, yet i pay multiple times taxes than do many others.
I also pay everyone that "helps" me run my business.
I agree outsourcing hurts us, but thats because taxes and regulations here are so bad.
You may know a lot about model T's, but when it comes to the economy and business talk to the hand my friend.

Vince m


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:52 am:

If I worried about the dollar value of my Model Ts, then maybe I've lost the whole reason for owning them.

I've already gotten my dollars worth out of my cars just enjoying them. And I don't have any plans on selling them in the future either. I've already given them away, to my kids, whenever they're ready to take them. If they want to sell them, then it's a 100 % profit for them.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 12:21 pm:

POLITICAL COMMENT DELETED

Now, you want to talk about 'out-sourcing'? Does this count?

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/us-bridges-roads-built-chinese-firms-14594513

I'll bet you haven't heard anything about this. Do you know that the election tabulation in November has been 'out-sourced' to a company based in Spain whose CEO is connected to big Obama donations in 2008?

http://www.examiner.com/article/nov-2012-vote-tabulation-raising-concerns

http://www.dailypaul.com/225552/obama-sold-vote-count-to-company-in-spain-linked -to-soros


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 12:58 pm:

POLITICAL COMMENT DELETED


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 01:04 pm:

LOL Here we go again! :-)

I was wondering how long it would take for "dropping values" to become a political rant

POLITICAL COMMENT DELETED


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 01:13 pm:

I stand corrected. I confused 'moron' with 'Mormon', since the left (and the media) has been so absorbed with Romney's religion lately.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 01:20 pm:

I wish all religious/political talk would get deleted.

It has no business here and does nothing but pollute otherwise good threads.

If I wanted to read political or religious posts I would go to those respective forums.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 01:25 pm:


I'm glad we got that settled. Now we don't need to hear any more about it until November.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 01:34 pm:

Prices are tied to ice cream cone costs. We used to get a cone for five cents. Price one today . . . . If the price of a cone drops the car prices will drop. If the price of a cone goes up the cost of a Model T will rise. It's that simple.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 02:02 pm:

POLITICAL COMMENTS DELETED

Luke is right

I wish all religious/political talk would get deleted.

It has no business here and does nothing but pollute otherwise good threads.

If I wanted to read political or religious posts I would go to those respective forums.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 03:01 pm:

Inflated car values is what destroyed the muscle car hobby for most working class enthusiasts.

Glad to see they're coming down on all fronts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 03:23 pm:

Frank - You really "hit a nerve" here with your "ice cream cone theory"!

Just recently, my two grandsons and I stopped at Baskins & Robbins for ice cream. One grandson got a double-dip cone, the other grandson wanted his double-dip in a cup, and I had a "MEDIUM" sized milk shake. Including sales tax, which is 9,4% in Pierce County, the total was $14.99!

WOW! I still can't get over it; what three of us kids could have bought with a one dollar bill and a few cents change when I was a kid, cost fifteen bucks!

Now then,.....lets see,.......using your "ice cream theory" Frank, I gotta' figure out what my 3 Model "T's are worth,....ha,ha,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 03:32 pm:

When that 1913 Runabout was new, (the same year the Federal Reserve was created) an ounce of gold was $18.92. Today's price is $1597.56 per ounce.

If you were to buy that car new for $525.00, using today's money (at less than 1.2% of its 1913 value) you would have to pay $44,329.75 for it.

The same also applies to ice cream cones. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 03:53 pm:

A good point to remember! People that grew up with Model T's and cars in the 30s and 40s are already dead and going to be in the next few years.
Just think, people are now collecting old cell phones and such!
Its a different generation guys!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Haynes on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 03:54 pm:

Any student of history or of economics would understand Ralph is correct. Those who do not understand really should take the time to learn.

Others can puff and bloviate, but in a few words he pegged it. It is not necessarily political, though it may be ideological. There is no need to become hysterical, screaming that threads need to be deleted, people must be censored and certain topics must forever be forbidden.

The perceived collapse of Model T prices is the subject and discussing the cause should not be any reason for people to clutch their pearls in panic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 05:44 pm:

What few words Dan?

You start adding up your federal income tax, State income tax, city taxes, property tax, licenses, fees, sales tax, permit costs...subtract that from your dollar we are long way past 50% taxation.

What little you have left is your freedom.

Look at California. Yeah...lets do like them.

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 05:52 pm:

Henry Ford had it right when he raised the wages of his employees so they could buy the car that they were making. If I understand it correctly, most factory employees were being paid about $2/day. Henry raised that to $5/day. Made for a lot of employees with the ability to buy a car.

Here in Milwaukee Harley laid off about 33% of its work force because they were making $30/hr. They can be called back at $20/hr. I don't think they will be out there buying too many Harleys. The CEO makes over $6 million.

Rumor has it that in 10 years Harley Davidson will no longer be in Milwaukee. At least Ford is still in Detroit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 06:15 pm:

Seems like a poor marketing job on that 13 roadster. Just a bath could have brought a better price. A bath and brass polish even more. And probably an hour's work it could be running.

I think 16 hours work could have easily added Royce's additional $5000.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 06:16 pm:

The recent MTFCI Rutland, Vermont Summer Tour had more young people than I have ever seen on any tour. I was really impressed with the number and the fact that they all finished without any mishaps, other than a blow engine or two. Blame the hills not the drivers, as a few very senior drivers DID NOT QUITE FINISH!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 06:39 pm:

Ted,

My point exactly. A non running car and no reserve was going to end low. The seller put little or no effort into selling the car, not even bothering to clean it.

She got rid of the junky old car in the garage and is probably very happy. The buyer got a great deal and he is happy.

Anything here that indicates a market trend? I don't see it, and I think it is wishful thinking or negative thinking to imagine that the price of '13 roadsters is suddenly plummeting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 06:58 pm:

Just as with car prices, history repeats it's self.
Chicago Tribune 4/21/1934

No comment necessary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 07:19 pm:

An old Marine Pilot sat down at the Starbucks, still wearing his old USMC flight suit and leather jacket and ordered a cup of coffee.

As he sat sipping his coffee, a young woman sat down next to him. She turned to the pilot and asked, ‘Are you a real pilot?'

He replied, "Well, I've spent my whole life flying planes, first Stearmans, then the early Grummans.... flew a Wildcat and Corsair in WWII, and later in the Korean conflict, Banshees and Cougars. I've taught more than 260 people to fly and given rides to hundreds, so I guess I am a pilot, and you, what are you?"

She said, "I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about naked women. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about naked women. When I shower, I think about naked women. When I watch TV, I think about naked women. It seems everything makes me think of naked women."

The two sat sipping in silence.

A little while later, a young man sat down on the other side of the old pilot and asked: "Are you a real pilot?"

He replied,
"I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:04 pm:

The value of a lot of things is dropping, as is interest in many things that have been around for centuries. Pianos are being hauled to the dumps. Museums are closing, Historic buildings are being demolished. In 1968, Americans pestered congress until a bill to allow the last overnight steamboat, the Delta Queen, to continue to operate. In 2008, when that permission ran out, America couldn't be inspired to ask congress to do the right thing and overrule a single congressman who had the power to prevent them from voting on it. No interest in such "old things" that should be put away.
I call this next generation the "Nothing Before Me" generation, where whatever happened or was made before them is unimportant.
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:13 pm:

David, I am amazed at the genuine lack of interest among the 20-30 crowd for much of anything from the past. My lady friend has been selling off family treasures that have been handed down since the 1800s because her kids (in their early 30s) have expressed ZERO interest in maintaining the items. ANd her attitude is that she might as well get something out of them instead of leaving the stuff to Greedwill and an estate sale.

My own daughter (who does appreciate old cars, thankfully) couldn't care less that I have her great-great grandmother's first sewing machine out in my shop and the clock her great grandfather bought for her great grandmother just after the war, still hanging in my kitchen.

WHen I was a kid in my teens, my friends and I LOVED poring over old things and wondering about their history, who held them, what were they used for, etc etc. Maybe we were a bunch of weird kids...I dunno..

Ok, off my rant...grin..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:59 pm:

I find a similar thing in my practice. When I ask 50 somethings the background of their names, or their nationality, I get a wonderful tale of the mixtures that make them who they are. When I ask a 30-something the same question, "what nationality is that name?" I get "I don't know,why?" Not only have they lost the things we used to cherish, they've lost their heritage and history.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:13 pm:

Thank goodness, that's not universal. My kids know a lot about their family history, and they all appreciate the handful of items we have that fall into the category of "family heirlooms." My son gave his son the middle name "Harrison" after his (the son's) 3xgreat grandfather, and my daughter gave her son the middle name "Briden" after his 3xgreat-uncle who died at the battle of Vimy Ridge in April of 1917. Part of that comes from the fact that Anja and I raised them to be aware of their heritage, but their interest is genuine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:17 pm:

P.S. My daughter is 36, and my sons are 31 and 27. They are also all named for ancestors, and are aware of who they were.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:18 pm:

History does not repeat it self, man just makes the same mistakes over and over again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:33 pm:

Well here might be your problem. if you want people to be interested in history they have to learn it first.
A person rings up the talkback radio station. This person tells of how "educated" they believe they are and how anyone not as "educated" as themselves is so terrible. They then demonstrate their extreme ignorance by arguing with the radio host and act shocked to learn that contrary to their "education" people 100 years ago had technology similar to todays but more basic. This "educated" person honestly believed that people 100 years ago lived in caves and wrote on stone tablets. Do they know who Thomas Edison was? doubt it. Every day i find something to be extremely disturbed by.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 01:06 am:

I have been fighting this stuff since I was in high school (dear God, that was over 45 years ago).
One of my long time favorite sayings is "You cannot know where you are going if you do not know where you are. And you cannot know where you are if you do not know where you have been. That is why learning history is so important."
I also enjoy hearing from strangers about their history, their culture. Whether their family has been here for generations, or they came just a year ago, I like to hear about it. A real interest in OUR history begins with an interest in YOUR OWN history.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 01:07 am:

I will admit that once in a while I do run across a young person with an understanding and appreciation for history. The other day I was closing the Chinese Temple museum when a family of three showed up passing through from Seattle. I figured I'd let them take a quick look at least. Well, the mom could read much of the Chinese calligraphy, and the 15 or 16 year old daughter asked intelligent, probing questions, so I continued to show them the museum. In our Tapestry hall is a bronze ceremonial urn with a large eagle on top. the Father mentioned something about the American type Eagle, and I state that the piece predated the NRA by quite a bit. I then told them that by NRA, I was referring to the National Recovery Act. The daughter then started telling me about part of the act and other similar legislation of the time that had been declared unconstitutional! This young person knew History! She also had a great appreciation of her parent's Chinese background (even though they didn't look Oriental at all--I didn't probe into that.
So, it's not all, but they are very rare!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 01:27 am:

I would bet the majority of us are not in this thing for speculative purposes. If we were, then Pierce Arrows, Peerlesses and Packards might be more lucrative ground in which to sow our investment seed. Part of the charm of our little corner of the collector car world is its accessibility. For the price of a very used car, one can buy into the Model T hobby. For less than the price of a new, stripped-down econo-box, one can purchase a brass tin lizzie (metallurgical pun intended). Either Flivver will steal away all the oooh's and ahh's from the muscle cars, big-fin cruisers, chrome-boob bombers and jello-mold jalopies at any car show you attend, so Model T guys get one heck of a big, impressive bang for the buck. I think that's a good thing.

For some reason, when people see my car, they often express the erroneous belief that a.) Model T Fords are rare and therefore, b.) very expensive to buy. At car shows, I assure such folk that Model T's are the most numerous antique cars of their vintage and as such, also the cheapest to buy. The other time I want to get that message clearly across is when the gas or electric meter reader, or the plumber's helper or the cable repair guy sees "Penelope" nestled all snug in my attached garage and makes comments that cause me to wonder whether he might have larceny in his heart. To guys like that, also I make a point of mentioning that it takes about a week to learn how to drive a Model T and that the crank will cheerfully break the arm of an operator who does not know exactly what he's doing. Yeah, subtlety is my long suit.

One of the things we desperately need in this hobby is young blood. Of course, younger people are not especially known for affluence, so the fact that they can buy into our ranks for a price that won't necessarily break the bank is a good thing. And oh, by the way; if prices go down enough, I might someday be able to afford a 1912 step-body Touring. That would be a good thing, too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 01:29 am:

It is unfortunately true that few people my age take interest in history, but thankfully there are at least a few. I'm 20 years old, and have been building my 25 T since I was a kid part by part. I would have majored in history if I hadn't chosen science instead. I plan on someday teaching my own kids to appreciate their history too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Van Evera on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 08:27 am:

Anyone who doubts that history is important should listen to (or not) mahmoud ahmadinejad when he spouts that the holocaust is all a lie.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 08:55 am:

We think The Way Things Are when we're kids is the normal state of the world, and what comes later is aberration and decline. In fact, youth with an interest in history have always been a minority. I was the only person in my high school photography class (yes, there was such a thing) who ever used turn-of-the-century box cameras. In fact I used a couple of them to make my own stereo camera. Most used only what was current at the time.

Whatever your age, look around at your own generation. Most people your age, whatever it is, show little or no interest in history. Yes, there are enough people to support two major Model T clubs, a national club for real radio, Civil War reenactment groups, etc. But whatever the age of the participants in those activities, they're a small minority of their generation.

What I think has declined is what's expected of an educated person. I've heard people with PhD after their name butchering English, which I believe is a change from earlier times. We routinely hear "professional" media folks, presumably college graduates, using media as a singular noun, confusing further and farther, phenomenon and phenomena (any irregular plural is now a deep mystery), and using phrases like year anniversary and healthy food. I can't imagine Andre Baruch, Ted Husing, or Lowell Thomas perpetrating such twaddle. The "professionals" who do so today are not stupid people. They've just come up in an age of grade inflation, when competence in English, history, literature, and general knowledge of facts, is given less importance. The people who hire them don't care (or don't know any better themselves).

Back on the original subject, all we can do as individuals is support organizations that advance our interests, and encourage younger folks who show an interest. Whether T prices rise or fall, we can encourage interest.

Ramble finished.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 11:02 am:

Sorry. I'm still not convinced about the prices in general. I agree that this might have been a get rid of it or poorly advertised (as in I don't care) sale. I think the possibly clueless seller is happy with their windfall and a buyer is happy with his killer purchase. If you're into this hobby you can see through years of dirt and a non running condition is almost normal but if the seller doesn't know that it results in a sale like this one. A knowledgeable seller is a different story. I believe the price would have been higher (in a more expected range) if the seller gave a damn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 12:43 pm:

Seems like the thread took some interesting turns.

As to the ever declining value of Ts, I'm 47 years old and have heard, over most of those 47 years, that the value of Ts is rapidly dropping. Maybe, but if it's true, we'd have to be paying people to take them away from us by now. One thing I can say for sure, the value of MY Ts is still strong. Just try to buy one from me!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 01:16 pm:

Jerry,

Reminds me of the old story:

"A man advertised that he would give away his ford on a certain corner at a certain time and when the day arrived and he pulled up to the location he found 5 driverless Fords sitting there...."

:-)

One must love the humor of the day that goes with these cars.

Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By roy palmer on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 01:20 pm:

Who is Ralph? Anyway, what is the purpose of this post? The mere fact that this post exists on the internet now will serve to cast a pall over the model t market. Anyone who Google's model t ford will see this post. So we have owners of cars on here debating and talking about this like it were a stock. "Model T values are dropping like a rock". I find this to be strange and without reason. To take an isolated example here and there only to judge that as an across the board fact, is not reasonable. Many with the same car would not sell for the same price. And many would pay an appropriate price for the car they desire. And it's probably true that Royce was correct in his assessment of the car and what could have been done to achieve a higher price. As for those concerned with value. I would say that Macs, Langs, Synders , etc.seem to be doing good business. So with all these parts being bought and sold to restore Model Ts, either it makes a lot of sense to people or there is a lot of stupid people, including myself, out there who have nothing better to do than to flush their money away on something of little value and whose value is getting less and less every day... Maybe the guy who sold the car for 13000, paid only 3 thousand for it years ago.. Maybe he thought that was a great return and certainly better than the 1 percent he is getting in the bank.Maybe it was an estate piece and the heirs just wanted it gone for any price. So now, in my view, when someone who is taking an interest in Model t's goes onto the internet and sees that Model ts are in a free fall in price(which I don't believe, especially for fine and early examples) who then will want to step up and pay a fair price for one? Just don't like this post, it smacks of collectors not taking their own cars seriously enough and denigrating their own property and investment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 02:47 pm:

Not to worry Roy...

This is internet news....you know the old story : "you get what you pay for"...the internet doesn't cost much - one can post what one feels, and because it is in print, there are those who BELIEVE it to be true.
Should it say instead:
Real Estate values are in a free fall....
or
Stock in newspapers are falling...or
print encyclopedias are a thing of the past?

Shucks, just cause it's on the 'net doesn't make it true....politicians words are all over the internet!

Cheers,

Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 02:50 pm:

The value of my T? Who cares? not me
The value of my time spent, the great people I have met and the smiles it brings. PRICELESS


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 03:03 pm:

I think the price of Model T's is going down for more than one reason. 1. Those who remember when the T's were new are getting fewer and fewer. 2. The modern generation is interested in things which go fast such as e-mails vs snail mail. Internet vs Newspapers. E books vs paper books fast cars vs Model T's 3. The economy. When people have to make a choice whether to pay the rent or buy food, pay for their medicine or their food, they aren't going to spend it on a car which is just for fun rather than for basic transportation. 4. The prices of houses are going down too. Many jobs are being lost and people are finding lower paying jobs. 5. The uncertainty about what the future has in store, is keeping some who still have money from spending it on a hobby. They want to keep it for possible need in time of job loss or high inflation. I could go on and on, but until the economy picks up again, I think the prices will remain low.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 03:49 pm:

When I got into this hobby, over 45 years ago, You could buy a really nice 1915 T touring car for under $1000. But all I could scrape up was $400. So I bought a drivable 1929 REO. When that nice 1915 T reached $1500, many T owners started dumping their cars because they KNEW the price was going to crash (they gave the same reasons given here). A few years later, that T was $5000. What would it sell for today?
Prices have dropped in the past couple years. I suspect they will continue to drop a little longer. But these drops are totally the result of a bad economy. When the economy recovers, model T prices will rise again. If the economy never does recover, the last thing I will have to worry about will be model T prices (I'll be trapping squirrels in my yard to eat).
Think model T prices are down? My home's dollar value has dropped more than 50%. I had almost $200,000 equity. Now I can't sell it for enough to pay off the mortgage. But at least my monthly payment is still less than the rent for a smaller house with no storage space. So I guess I am stuck here. And I intend to continue working on model Ts.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 04:07 pm:

I think that a ("TRUE") Model T Ford enthusiast would be and should be (unless very wealthy) concerned with how much he or she might have to pay for any given Model T Ford he or she might wish to acquire, but couldn't care less about how much he or she could sell it for.

Someone who cares how much their Model T could, or should, sell for is not really a ("TRUE") Model T Ford enthusiast and is really in the Model T Ford hobby for the wrong reason(s). The real "value" of any given Model T Ford to a ("TRUE") enthusiast that is in the hobby for the right reasons considers the real or total value of the Model T to involve much more than money.

I guess that to me, it boils down to,.....how much is it worth to you to own your own little piece of American automotive history that you can share with family, old friends, and, more importantly, new friends that you and your "T" will make, and to be able to preserve that little piece of American History for future generations of your family and their friends?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By roy palmer on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 04:52 pm:

Yes, Harold, you are right on..Thats what i meant when i asked what is the purpose or point of the original post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 05:44 pm:

I bought a '27 Touring in 1971 for $500. It was a put-together car, no top, but it ran and I had a lot of fun with it. A fellow in our local car club showed up at a meeting with a freshly-restored '17 Runabout for which he had just paid $2,500. I couldn't believe anyone would pay that much for a Model T! (But it was cute as a bug.) :-)

Prices for just about everything go up, then they go down, then they go up again, depending upon lots of factors. But mostly, over the long run, they go up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott McBrook on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 07:12 pm:

I read a lot of interesting points, agree that for whatever the cause, younger people are less interested in pre-war cars than the older generations. You can see it in the tv auctions and things. I help a friend with a car collection and even taking a 37 LaSalle to the inspection station you get blank looks and total bewilderment. Today I took the '63 VW Bus in the guy needed my advice to get it started ("give it some throttle") and I was asked where the engine was and if it was diesel or not. Very old cars like the T might was well be a horse and buggy as much interest as many of the younger crowd have in collecting and driving them. They will look at a show, but not sure many want to own one.

I think the reasons given in some prior comments are accurate, and you may see these older things we thought were cool drop further in prices. I also know my parents have offered me some furniture bits and stuff from family inherited items and what am I going to do with things that really are a 180 deg from what I have in my house (mostly mission)? Its going to be interesting to see if the next generation is as into collecting. I'd short victorian furniture and beanie-babies, 45's, etc. Cars will fare better than most stuff, like a guy said, stamps and coins are more "old school" and I don't know a single young person interested. There are so many stamps on the market and so few buyers, when my mom's cousin gave her his collection most them were about worthless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Todd Karasti on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 07:12 pm:

I was big into muscle cars 30 years ago, then family life and family cars. I always wanted a model T but assumed I would need alot higher income to get into the hobby, boy was I wrong and have caught a serious case of the bug. I found my first T last year on Craigs. a 1914/16 project less the main body for $1600. I had no idea at the time this was a (brass era) car I knew nothing about T's. The seller must have been laughing, he even told me he knows T guys that have been in the hobby 50 years and never owned a brass car. My 3 kids who are in their late teens and twenty get stuck watching endless hours of the Pickers and Chasing classic cars when the wife is not around, so they are starting to get (some) interest. I should have did this 20 years ago and all 3 would have been into the hobby big time. My advice is to start your kids young. It was shocking to see muscle cars get higher prices than antique cars.I see alot of young people at swap meets but they seem to be just out on a stroll not on a parts mission. The way I see it when the baby boomers start dying off in rapid fashion there will be an over abundance of antique cars out there with very low selling prices unless something sparks up a trend making them (the thing to have)I really hope I am wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 09:41 pm:

I guess other people are different from me! I still like 78 rpm records on a windup phonograph. I have many older furniture items which I inherited. We gave the newer pieces which we had bought from the store to our children when they moved out, but kept the old ones. Some are over 100 years old and at least one item is about 230 years old. They all have a story. Some were just "old junk" that family members wanted to get rid of when we got married 54 years ago. Some were inherited when our parents passed.

Anyway, that's the way it is. Some people are just set in their ways and I am one of them.

I like Model T Fords.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 10:27 pm:

Norm, I have a windup Victrola that I bought at a Goodwill store in 1959 for $8. Through the years, I have managed to find a number of 78 rpm records (to add to the ones that I inherited from my parents). Some that I have are World War I songs. I think my favorite is, "I'd Like to See the Kaiser with a Lily in his Hand." I have just googled it. I can find a lot of sheet music, but no recording. I also like, "Just a Baby's Prayer at Twilight for her Daddy Over There."

I have some WWII records as well, most or all of which belonged to my parents (Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition, Comin' in on a Wing and a Prayer, Johnny Zero, etc.).

Dick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 10:36 pm:

As some of you know, I'm 34 yrs old, under the normal age range of most stock & original Old Ford collectors/restorers.

All I can verify is that not many guys my age around here are interested in the stock original cars be it a Model T or other early car. Women on the other hand show alot of interest. Even my daily driver '56 Ford in all it's primered glory gets alot of positive comments from the women folk. As a single guy, I have no problem with this- it's the perfect icebreaker!

Most guys my age are concerned with video games, rice burners and tattoos. I'd rather spend my money on old Ford stuff. Like I tell people "if it has a Ford script on it, I collect it."

My prediction is in the next 20 years there will be a glutton of cars & parts on the market in addition to anything related to pre-war Ford. If my health and finances allow it, I'll be buying and collecting the whole time. As others have shared, it's all due to generational differences. I was born 50 years too late.. HAHA.

I'm sure the economy also plays a part in all this. I own a scrap metal business as a side venture to my day job(which helps finance my Old Ford habit). Not a day goes by when I'm picking up metals from one of my accounts and they tell me 2 or 3 people have been by asking for scrap metals. It didn't used to be like this, and even with the low price most scrap is bringing right now, there's been an explosion of wanna be scrappers. It's a sign of the times.

For s***s & giggles, here's a small load of rotors, a/c compressors, and other misc scrap loaded in the '56 ready to take to the yard. This is the most effective way of converting new car parts into old Ford goodies.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 11:20 pm:

Face it. "Antiques" are basically anything pre-1970 In most people's minds, even though time has moved on. Most people who grew up with this stuff are dying off. The younger generation at large are not interested in maintaining it, let alone collecting it. Sure people have grandkids that enjoy going for rides to get ice cream, but take a look around at the demographic of your local swap shows.

It's as simple as supply and demand. And the demand is dying off with the collectors. Good news for me though. I'm 28.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 11:35 pm:

I'm lucky my wife and I both appreciate our family histories and enjoy antiques. Ever since I was a kid I've like black and white movies, so does my wife. One of our favorites is "Holiday Inn" with Bing Crosby. We make it a family tradition to watch it while we decorate our Christmas tree.

My grandmother died this February at the age of 102. She was a awesome women feared the Lord and never gave up. She told me some great stories of how she grew up in the old days. From those stories I can't believe how easy our lives are compared to hers. Basically she told me if you didn't work from sun up to sun down you didn't survive on the farm. This coming from a women who couldn't weigh more then 100 pounds wet.

For me the price of model T's have gone up. Found the sales slip when my grandpa bought his 16 Coupelet for $500 in 1953. I think it's value has climbed somewhat.

Philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 11:52 pm:

Some young folks know about antiques! I pulled into the local grocery store a couple of days ago behind a beat to $hit 72 Chevy pick up with 5 folks in the cab and a bed full of scrap that had Colorado antique plates on it. Tweakers seem to know how to do this.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 12:11 am:

Paul,

If Colorado is anything like FL, you automatically get an Antique Plate if your car/truck is over 20 yrs old. I have an Antique Plate on the '56 and it gets driven daily. We have to pay a yearly renewal on the Antique Tag, but it's reduced substantially from the 'regular' tags.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 09:52 am:

Luke, I wonder if other states have as many different specialty plates as we have here in Florida, there must be 50 of them? Both my cars (the T and the Rambler) have antique plates on them and the Mrs. car has a 'US Army' plate on it because she's Viet Nam era Army.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 10:05 am:

Dick, I have a wind-up Victrola console that's been in the family for generations, complete with records. If you like WW1 songs, you have to get this one, it's my favorite. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXObWK_lKkM
I also have a studio record from the pre-war 40's when my mom was a vocalist and my dad was a sax player. They're both dead now, it's the kind of memory that's priceless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 10:10 am:

Neat, Dennis. I don't have that one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 11:04 am:

A couple of reasons younger people don't work on cars. 1. Many high schools have discontinued shop classes. 2. The newer cars last much longer, that is they go farther without overhaul, than the older ones and when they do break down are so much harder to fix that most do it yourselfers cant or don't want to work on them. The new emission controls make it difficult to adjust the car so it will pass the test. So the interest in working on cars is not so much as it once was.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 11:16 am:

25 & older here in N.J. Classic plates are referred to as "QQ" plates. Personalized QQ plates are available also. No state inspections needed with classic plates. Renewable yearly. About $40.00


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 05:19 pm:

I think Norm touched on an important point. Back when we old farts were growing up, we helped our Dads keep the family cars and trucks running, since that's just how things were then. We learned about cars by helping and paying attention. By the time we were old enough to drive, we knew about maintaining and repairing cars.

Modern vehicles have gotten so advanced that it is now impossible for ordinary folks to work on them. They have to be hooked up to a computer diagnostic apparatus to tell what they might need. Then the "mechanic" just unplugs the failed part and plugs in a new one.

I'm afraid the days of the car buyer who was expected to maintain his own car are a distant memory. Did you get a set of tools with your last new car? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 06:30 pm:

Nowadays, people think maintenance means just stopping in at Jiffy-Lube once in awhile. Like Mike says, maintenance when we were growing up was a whole different "ball game". And if you changed your own oil (and many did) you also hit all of the grease fittings (after wiping the dirt off of them) with a grease gun. Modern cars have absolutely NO grease fittings,....NONE! In the '40's and '50's, cars had as many as a dozen or more grease fittings; mostly front end and driveline. And another pretty much "rule-of-the-thumb" was,.....points, plugs and condenser, check the timing and adjust the carburetor, every 10,000 miles or so. And if you forgot, or, just let it go, the car would remind you as it started to run bad!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 11:24 pm:

I wouldn't say prices are THAT bad....... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&item=1307 36466503&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Good stuff always seems to bring good money.
You'd be surprised how many remarks like "Nice ride" I get from young people........ :-) ......and ESPECIALLY from motorcyclists!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 11:41 pm:

I will second what Craig said about motorcyclists. I drive my T's a lot and most of them let you know they approve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 03:49 am:

Craig & Paul - Yeah, especially the Harley Davidson motorcyclists. I get lots of "thumbs-up" from those guys. I'm thinking maybe it's because we have something in common with those Harley guys,....their machines "mark their territories" when parked like ours do!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 03:56 am:

LOL Harold!....... :-)
I think they think T owners are died in the wool "hands on" drivers too....... ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 06:51 am:

Craig - This car is the exception.... not the rule. There have been numerous 15's over the last few years that were just as nice, but only brought about 10 - 11K. THere are always spurious data points that need to be discarded to come to an accurate conclusion.

I am also aware that "good cars" will still command good money. No arguement here. But if you group all model T's into the same sales study, the overall average of sales prices are down. Here is another example... 3 years ago, I don't think you would have never seen this original 14 offered with a 10K buy it now. Guys that know the true rarity of un-restored originals would have bid it well beyond that number.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160857552458&ssPag eName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sam "POPS" Humphries on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 07:33 am:

I got my 1916 T in January and have enjoyed "tinkering" and learning about it since. Enjoy driving it also.

I have two sons, 1 a heavy equipment mechanic who loves crawling under the T and 1 that is a retired Marine who loves estate and garage sales. Both would take the T and keep it in the family. The oldest, the mechanic, will get first dibs.

I also have a 24 year old granddaughter, who have lived with us since 1997, who would take the T and still keep it in the family. PS She is a FORD person.

There are some out there that will keep this love of the T going as long as we can keep this great country free and beautiful

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUT MILITARY!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, August 04, 2012 - 08:25 am:

Harold, the 'modern' Harleys are computer driven, fuel injected and leak free. About the only things they share with the Harleys I had are the V twin engine and the name plate.
I never owned a Harley that was new enough to have them 'lectric' starters on it (pre-65).
The newest one I owned was a 62 FL 'Pan Head' and the oldest one was a 32 VL 'Flathead'. The 32 was a 'total loss oil system' (no scavenge pump). You poured the oil in the tank, it lubricated the engine and went out on the chain. Now that one left a trail everywhere it went. The newer ones just leaked. When I moved to Florida from California in 97, I sold a 1960 XLCH (Flintstones) Sportster. Kick start only, mechanical brakes, magneto ignition. I thought about driving it to Florida but they don't make enough wire to keep the chain guard on that long. :-) My Model T reminds me of my old Harleys. I thought about buying another Harley when I got out here but the old ones are scarce and expensive and the newer ones just don't appeal to me.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration