Can You Help A Newbie?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Can You Help A Newbie?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas A Broadhead on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 06:26 pm:

About the only thing I know about a Model T is that they are usually black!
I just purchased a 1917 Model T with some engine parts missing. The seller has agreed to provide the missing parts (purchase if he cannot find) necessary to make it run. Can you follow this link: http://filterfactorystore.com/modelt.htm to help me identify missing parts?

If you can help, I will appreciate it very much.
Thomas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 06:33 pm:

Lower radiator hose, carburetor, Thomas, can you suply pictures from inside the care? Coil box, wiring harness, switch etc...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 06:40 pm:

Thomas,

should be some T guys near Conyers. Would be good to get one over there with a vendor catalog and the service manual and crawl over the car to make a list. I don't see anything missing that should be hard to come by but you need an accurate list. Make sure you have 4 coils under the cowl.

Good news is you aren't missing a generator...it never had one!

Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 07:10 pm:

looks nice - wonder what's happened?
..former owner started to pull parts from the engine for an overhaul, then suddenly died, nobody living knows where the missing parts were placed?

Picture 4 shows the oil filler hole and the axle sticking out to the right is the camshaft where the commutator/timer should be - it's supposed to ground the coils to make them ignite in the right time and order. You need some books to read to get familiar with the beast - it isn't rocket science, but quite a lot different than more modern cars. That's what make them so fun :-)
Mac's catalog has good illustrations - some of them even online: http://macsautoparts.com/model-t-ford-manifold-parts/camid/MDT/cc/241/

Here are some manuals you'll learn a lot from: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/products/service-manuals

#1 is always to read the owner's manual - here's 1911 and 1921 online:
http://www.mtfca.com/books/1911Inst.htm
http://www.mtfca.com/books/21manual.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 07:49 pm:

Thomas, there is a whole covey of T owners in the Atlanta, Fayetteville, Carrollton, Sargent, Newnan area- anyone of whom would be glad to look the car over and get you started. The most famous of the bunch that comes to mind is named "the Head Knocker". Ask around about him..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 08:12 pm:

Here are a few pictures that may help. The first two show the timing gear cover with the commutator (timer) in place. The first is with the oil filler hole cover in place, and the second is without it. Note how a bolt that holds an arm to keep the timer in place goes through the oil filler hole. In later cars this is also one of the bolts that holds the generator in place. In your car it's just to hold the arm against the timer cover.



I notice your timing gear cover has been broken and welded back together. That's OK, but this is a fairly common and easily obtained part, so you may want to replace it. Here's the 1926-1927 version. It's slightly different, but it gives a
pretty good picture of how the part should look.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas A Broadhead on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 08:23 pm:

You guys have been most helpful. Quite an education for me. Thanks so much for your help. I am well on my way.

Thomas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas A Broadhead on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 08:32 pm:

You guys have really helped. Here is the picture of the coil. This photo also reminded me I am missing a brake pedal


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 08:34 pm:

There's something I forgot to mention. Be sure you ask the previous owner if the old babbitt thrust washers in the rear axle have been replaced with bronze. This will explain why.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 08:48 pm:

It needs some parts but most are there. Nice car but will take some work to get it running. The forum will help you find what you need and the experts here will help you through.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 09:07 pm:

Thomas -- The car looks really nice, with good paint and upholstery. One might wonder why the engine and transmission parts are missing. Did the seller offer you any explanation for that? You might be looking at an engine rebuild, not just replacing a few parts. The water pump, which is an aftermarket part for Model T's, is a red flag which might indicate the radiator is no longer able to cool the engine. That's not always the case, but it often is. Radiators are expensive.

The car appears to be nice enough to put some money into fixing the mechanical components, but you might be looking at more repairs than you bargained for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 10:05 pm:

Thomas,

if you are missing a brake pedal AND the bolts holding the hogshead on, then you need to look and see if you have transmission bands. I' am wonder if they are there or not.

There should be 4 coils in that coil box too.

Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 10:42 pm:

Add 2 pieces of glass for the windshield to your list.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 11:09 pm:

Lift up the floor boards and shoot us a picture of what you see under there. Having the hogshead (transmission bell housing) off or loose with some bolts missing might indicate some transmission troubles. As others have stated, it looks like a lot of things are cosmetically nice on the body and upholstery but worse case is an engine overhaul and you won't get far with an old radiator that has long ago stopped cooling. Most radiators from the T era hold water just fine because it is not a pressurized system but without a good radiator you won't be able to drive it further than around the block a couple of times. Make sure you don't settle up with the seller without driving it at least a half hour or more to make sure it doesn't over heat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 11:10 pm:

I really wish that the "newbies" would ask questions before they plop down money for a car.

The serial number on the block, 2,048,126 is a July 1917 serial number which is at the tail end of the 1917 model year which ended July 31, 1917. (The 1918 model year was August 1, 1917 through July 31, 1918.)

However, I see a lot of things on your car that are not 1917 which makes me believe that your car is a "put-together."

The body is definitely not 1917 - it is much later. The most obvious clues are the narrow armrests and the cowl which has two extra holes with a strap running across the top and angle iron instead of wood blocks on the interior of the cow. The firewall trim with the drip edge is not 1917. Steering wheel is much later. The rear axle housings are not 1917.

Best case scenario is that it is a later car that simply had its motor swapped with an earlier one. Worst case is that it is merely an assembly of parts from various years, aka a "put-together."

Did you inquire about the history of the car before you purchased it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 11:46 pm:

Hey Thomas, unless you're planning to have your car judged in some kind of "my car is more correct than your car" competition, don't get too hung up on what parts were used to build it. It's still a Model T and every part you need is available. Don't sweat the small stuff. Get ahold of someone in the area that's Model T smart and make good use of them. These forums are really great and you'll get all the help (opinionated and other) that you will need. Also be sure to check out the "Fordbarn" and the mtfci forums for information. There's a lot of great guys over on the fordbarn site that won't post on this one because some people are a little anal retentive. And it goes the other way too. Take it with a grain of salt and enjoy the hobby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 12:10 am:

I should qualify my original post.

I've noticed lately novices who post on the forum that they are new to the hobby and recently purchased their first Model T.

I would prefer that someone who is new to the hobby come forum first or find someone locally and seek advice PRIOR to making the purchase.

My main concern is not necessarily that the car is correct or incorrect. I just hate to see someone pay too much for car that is being represented as one thing when it is actually something else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 12:44 am:

That's a very good point Erik and sure messed up my speech. So where are you the rest of the time when I'm jumping to conclusions and misinterpreting what people have got to say?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 07:56 pm:

Erik,
Until they ran across it and bought it, or inherited it, they had no reason to look for us! I've had T's for over 35 years, but didn't research and learn about 15's till I was building one recently! I bought my first Studebaker in 1975. I'd never heard of the Studebaker Drivers Club until I couldn't find parts locally. I'd never heard of the Vintage Chevy Club of America until after I ran across and bought an original 29 Chev. IMHO very few people decide to buy a T way in advance, and surely don't research all about it first. WE know the value is currently down, but when someone else is offered an opportunity to buy an 85 year old car for under 10K, they may jump on it. We don't live in a perfect world.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 08:18 pm:

Thomas, first thing, order a Jelf book shelf. Then your life will be easier and fulfilled. Ask Steve Jelf what I mean.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Van Evera on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 12:16 am:

I bought an old '26 ford in 1988. Turned out it was a Model T! Not only that, but I soon discovered there were lots of guys out there who could help me, and lots of parts, too! (THANK GOODNESS!) Never thought to do a boatload of research on the subject before I "jumped in with both feet...." I just wanted to get an old car and have fun working on it and driving it! I suspect that's what Thomas (and lots and lots of you other guys did, too!!!) Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Van Evera on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 12:20 am:

Hey Mike: When you're "jumping to conclusions" the rest of us are probably scrambling like mad to get the heck out of your way!!!!!!

BTW, my cousins lived on Kramer Lake over there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas A Broadhead on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 06:35 am:

Hey guys, i appreciate all of your help and the education for myself. This is my first Model T. Several years ago when I was younger and had much less money, I did restore a '50 Ford Coupe and a '50 Chevy pickup. I got my dose of "original" back then. I do not have the knowledge that many of you have, but I just wanted a T, to enjoy making it work, driving it, and simply because I wanted it. I am not interested in showing my T, just enjoying my T.
I just assumed because the title says 1917, it was a 1917. If I had known differently, I still would have purchased the car and you have been very helpful in my journey to learn more about T's and specifically my "1917" T. It has been fun thus far and you have been helpful. Now, help me figure out what model the body is!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 07:19 am:

Thomas,

Assuming the body was a complete body and not assembled from body parts form several different year ranges, it would have been produced sometime between 1921 and 1922. Rationale: It has the two man top irons on the front seat that were discontinued with the 1923 year model when they went to the one man top and slanted windshield. But if the body was reassembled from parts the parts fit fine for 1921-23 front and 1921-25 rear and you can easily swap out the windshield and top. The two man top iron requires the upholstery to be out or temporarily pulled back so the iron can be installed. Ref photos below and compare to your body. Also remember to check the right front floor board riser for a body number -- if it was produced by Beaudett it will usually be there.







Respectfully submitted,

Additionally the arm rest are the narrow style that were used 1921-1925 as shown below:



rather than the wider style used 1917-1920ish as shown below:



And remember that at the end of 1920 production and the beginning of 1921 model year production there would have been both styles rolling off the various assembly lines around the world. I.e. overlap.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 08:15 am:

It's a bit remarkable how good the body, suspension, wheels, and upholstery look when the engine looks a bit sad. I mean, I don't see a dent or wrinkle in that body or paint from the pictures. As for the stuff you need in order to get the engine running, it's a pretty big list. If you don't mind, what are your plans/intentions with the car? If it's going to be something you want to drive a decent amount, besides the items that are missing, there's a lot of things that need to be checked. Hap has a great list that he usually posts for folks that are getting a T back in running shape. The list can be a bit intimidating, but it really only takes a little while to go through, especially if you get some help from other T folks. If you look on the forum for the thread "Just got my first T!" it has the list of things you need to do and check in there. As Hap likes to say, "The T is a faithful servant, but has some known safety issues that need attention." I hope you get it on the road soon! The forum is a great resource and I've found T folks to be as selfless and helpful as any breed out there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, August 09, 2012 - 08:22 am:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/303181.html?1344469283

Here's the link, just scroll down and you'll see the directions for un-moth-balling a T.


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