I have read a couple post in the past week where people are saying they are going 50,52 and 60 mph, this is my first summer with a T a 1923, the best I have ever got is 35 mph, is something wrong with mine or are people over stating there speed?
Just remember 0 to 60 is one thing, 60 to 0 is a whole different story in a Model T!!
My opinion(not worth much here) over 35 is nuts! Have fun, KB
35 MPH is a pretty good cruising speed but your T should get to that speed fairly easy. The 45 to 50 MPH + is nuts. It will take as long to go 0 to 60 as it takes to get there and that ain't good.
My Dad used to tell of a story when he was a 'youngster' .... probably when he was 20 or younger. He had some buddies put $1 worth of gas in a friends T, and drove up to Houghton Lake (from Elsie, MI .. some 100 miles or so ...), and a bunch of other places .. going 50-60mph the whole way, and drove all day and half the next on the $1 of gas.
After driving THIS T .... I think he stretched the yarn a bit! A model A ... MAYbe? ... :-)
High speeds are possible in a T that's been altered with changes in suspension, steering, and drive train. I find 30 mph a nice, comfortable cruising speed in a stock Model T. You can push a stock T in good condition to 40 mph or 45 mph, but if you do it a lot it won't be in good condition long. The stock T was developed and built for use on roads of 1909, roads made for horse drawn traffic. Driving on modern roads at modern speeds requires changes to the car. When driving a T, I prefer life in the slow lane.
I had my '20 going 47 mph once, never again. It loves 38/40 mph and could cruise at that speed all day long. Everyone lives life at their own pace, the secret is finding your comfort zone then sit back and enjoy the ride. Bill
I second the 35 motion. Going downhill, I might occasionally hit 40, but back off of it if I see I'm going that fast. I don't doubt there are some who do the speeds they claim, but I wonder how prudent it is.
Driving an antique car at any speed is a gamble at best. However, driving it at speeds it wasn't designed for is suicidal.
The Bugatti Veyron will do 253 miles an hour for 12 minutes until the tires burn off and the gas tank empties. Just because it will to that, doesn't mean it should.
Same applies to a Model T: Just because it MIGHT do fifty, doesn't mean you should.
35 is good..beyond that is suicide!
My extremely tired, old, '26 tudor will do 37 mph on a flat road with everything wide open. However, I've never seen it necessary to go that fast because I'm afraid I'll miss something. Besides my old dog has a better chance to get a good look at a rabbit or a squirrel if I keep it at 30 mph or less. Life is too short to live it in the fast lane.
To answer John's question a typical T will cruise at 35 with a top speed some what above that depending on the body style. (and modifications)
It sounds as though your car may not be running up to par. Have you compared it to a similar car, is there a club in you area?
I am the contrarian on this subject. Any stock Model T should do 45 on the flat. If not, something is wrong with it, My Model T (reground cam, high head milled .080", aluminum pistons) will do 55 on the flat all day long. As far as speeds above 35 ruining your motor, you've had the wrong guy do your motor if that is the case. I've got thousands and thousands and thousands of miles on my T's. Most of those miles were at full throttle.
Contrary to what you read here by most people, slower is not always safer in a T, especially on the highway. I have had two friends that got rear ended, both with tragic results while they were traveling slowly (35 or 40 mph, perhaps) on a highway.
Of course you can get into trouble at any speed, someone can T-bone you, jerks can cut you off etc. For me, that is no reason to drive your T at unreasonable slow speeds. Following distance and vigilance go a long way toward compensating for poor brakes.
The Montana 500 has been going for 50+ years with close to half of a million miles driven at speeds close to 50 mph with stock T brakes with ZERO injury accidents.
Your emotions tell you slower is always safer, logic and the facts don't back this up.
In a Model T you should remember you can't stop but everyone else thinks you can.
I save my speed for my V8, 4 speed cars.
I haven't checked witha GPS, but if I had to guess, I've never had my coupe over 35 on a flat, straight. ANd that's fine by me.
Remember that there is a big difference in geography too. Where I live, you can comfortably run 45 or more without the traffic that many speak of. Sometimes you drive miles without seeing another car or a stop sign.
As I said, My old T is very tired. The motor is old and the compression is low. But it still runs and is actually able to go 37 mph on the flat. That's the top speed. And that's faster than I want to go. If you need to go faster, Jump into your F150 and go. As far as any stock model t going 45 on the flat. I wouldn't know. I would imagine my '22 touring would, but I've got no desire to do that. Typically I drive on old county and township roads and for the most part any tours my club goes on are done on old county and township roads. So the opportunities for accidents because were driving to slow are less than if we were out on any busy highways. For the most part the majority of the cars have working brake and signal lights and those of us who don't will try to get into the middle of the pack when we're on tours. Yeah Tom, you might be the contrarian (where in the he__ did you find that word?) but that's OK. It's different strokes if you get my drift and I'm pretty sure we'd enjoy having you with us on one of our tours but you'll have to understand what the deal is if you go. Because you may end up doing a lot of waiting around for a lot of us to catch up. I'd be willing to bet there are some of us in our club that could run the Montana 500 and keep up but I've never heard of anyone going out to try it. It sounds like it might be a fun thing to try out. But I think a person might have to have better built cars than I drive. At any rate, take care.
I don't have working speedometers on any of my T's, but I can tell you that to me 40 feels like 100 in a more modern car. It begins to vibrate, the steering gets a bit unstable, and the wind blows in and the engine sounds like it is going to explode. I suspect that many of those who think they are going 50 or 60 are really not going that fast. A speedster with lowered suspension, wire wheels and more brakes than Henry installed, perhaps a more modern steering system and good balancing in the engine and magnets removed from the flywheel could get up to a faster speed and if the work has been done well might be safe going that fast, but for me, 30 or 35 is fast enough, with perhaps 40 once in a while on a straight road without traffic. Remember to expect the unexpected such as an animal running out in front of you or a blowout tire.
Norm
Geez, Doug, are you trying to tell us Braidwood isn't a suburb of Chicago.
John, you're lucky. You have a built in governor that stops you from doing something stupid mainly pushing a wagon with a motor in it up to 50 or better. On the rare occasions I attempted to murder someone by taking them for a ride 2 people said "I didn't realise it could go so fast". They'ed just never been going 30 MPH 3 feet of the ground without that safety bar that locks you in on a roller coaster. Sure, in a 30 MPH accident you'll be lucky to wake up in a hospital. At 50 They'll have to pick you up with a street sweeper.
John,
They probably have modifications. My stock T's are in the 35-45 class, while my speedsters are in the 55+ class, and my TT cruises at 15. Some folks put a Rootlieb body on a T frame and call it a speedster--and they are very pretty! Others have had significant modifications for speed--oil pump, overhead valves, hydraulic brakes, wire or disc wheels, aux transmissions, and the list goes on. They are as individual as the owners. As the most accessorized vehicle, you are limited only by your imagination and wallet! As a footnote, my most dependable vehicles are the ones that are bone stock! I can let my TT sit for 6 months and turn on the gas and go! If I tried that with either speedster, I'd have to file the points, or something to get it going.
Speed and maintenance are proportional. When one goes up so does the other.
Mike, they always call us a southwest suburb on the news. Everybody here laughs when they do. I'm nearly 50 miles from Chicago. If I go 3 miles or less east, west or south, I am in what many would call no mans land. If I go north, I have traffic 2-4 miles from home. We went past a radar trailer a few weeks ago. The kind that flashes your speed at you. The wife agreed we were at our normal speed. When we got to the sign it was flashing 45. She was shocked. I found with a balanced engine it just purrs along at 45. It will go faster, I just won't let it. As Tom says, if you put together a good motor, run it. Thanks again to the guy who helped me, you know who you are.
Doug, your point about a balanced motor is well taken. And I'd add a balanced transmission but that goes without saying. I know if I lived in Southwestern Minnesota I'd probably be flat out more than I am. There's not to much to see down there but corn and soybeans anyway and the ground is flat as an ironing board. We have a large diversity of terrain here. Everything from a small mountain range to miles and miles of cropland to lots of hills and dales. Add way over 10,000 lakes to that and it's hard to find a straight stretch of flat road in about 60% of the state.
A fast T can always go slow.
Humble Howard struggled to keep up with Gene's Torpedo with E-Timer.
Nobody has even tried to convince me this is less safe than a motorcycle.
Guys who can run their Model T Fords at highway speeds are the exception and those exceptions are likely to be lightweight speedsters with two bucket seats and no bodies.
Your average, more-or-less stock T that's used for daily driving may have a high compression head, maybe a high-flow manifold and maybe even a trick carburetor. That stuff may help you get heavier loads up hills a little better and accelerate a little bit quicker, but top speed isn't really affected very much and with a foot print that measures about three square inches per tire, you don't really want to go any faster.
My 1915 Touring stops pretty good from 30 mph. Stopping short from 35 mph is a little more dicey and I can't always do that when a traffic light turns yellow, therefore I slow from 35 mph to 30 when approaching a green light. If the modern cars behind me wonder whether I'm daydreaming, well... that's why I have a "slow moving vehicle" sign in the back.
My car feels okay at 40 mph, but at that speed, I know my ability to maneuver or slow down is drastically reduced, so I don't do that except on long, straight roads without intersections. That kind of thing is okay for short distances, but cruising for any significant distance at 40 mph is not doing the engine any good. I had my car up to 42 once, but I guess that probably wasn't a real good idea.
i run a really light 23 roadster, reground cam high flow manifold and a distributor, i can make it go 45. at that point i feel that i am revving the engine to high. i also have stock gears and 21" demountables.
now if you were to balance and true the tires and wheels, and balance the rotating assebly (excluding counterweights), get a higher rear end ratio, and accessory brakes you could go 50+ no problem, the model T engine has plenty of power to get there. however you still have the problem of tire contact on the road itself.
but with everything remaining stock, 35mph is very comfortable, 40 is obtainable if you are feeling ambitious.
this coming from a 20 year old hot rodder.
As a retired race car driver and owner of an exotic sports car, I like driving fast, sometimes. But when driving a Model T, speed is totally irrelevant to me. My speed is dependent on my ability to stop, and without auxiliary brakes, 30 to 35mph is pretty much the max I can justify here in town without being irresponsible. I actually enjoy puttering around at medium rpm the most. In some weird way, my Model Ts remind me of my old, Cummins-powered Dodge pickup: it putters around at 1,200 rpm and runs out of steam at slightly over 2,000rpm. But with close to 300,000 miles on the clock now, it's barely broken in. I'll tell you a secret: I've never tested the top speed on my Speedster, never had her throttle wide open, yet I enjoy driving it more than I thought would be possible.
I agree with Tom Carnegie, I am more worried about being hit from behind than I am going to fast. I have seen 70 miles an hour on two GPS going down hill in a stock T. Back about 15 or so years ago a Colorado state assembly man got held up by a Model T and he introduced a bill in the house that antique cars were to be kept off the roads. Fortunately it did not pass.
Side Bar: In Colorado most all the roads in the mountains have SLOW VEHICLE PULL OFFS to let faster traffic by. I don't know what is in Montana but I was told that the Ts on the National Tour in Glacier National Park were terrible about not pulling over. We should be courteous with faster drivers or someday we may have some bad laws about driving on the Roads.
John, I have checked 3 out of my 4 T's with GPS.
I was surprised that the '19 touring, '20 coupe and '27 tudor ALL perform the same @ 43 mph on level ground no wind.
When I get the '25 Fordor out for a real run I'll grab a buddy with GPS on his phone and test that too but I'm pretty sure that one is going to be a bit (more) doggy.
My GPS has said I hit a max speed of 50mph. My Depot Hack runs really good a 40-45, but I think it is going too fast! I really prefer running about 35 and maybe a little faster down a hill to get up the other side! Then comes the thought of what could happen if you had some kind of failure or had to slow down in a hurry----Not good!!!!
I agree with the 35 MPH that most people are talking about.
The aerodynamics on my depot hack is like driving a barn down the road with the doors closed. 20 - 25 MPH is fun.
Above that and it gets a bit uncomfortable.
It might get to 40 or 45 (downhill in the draft behind a truck) but not with this chicken behind the wheel!
I plan on seeing my grandchildren get married and have kids.
Imagine the joy of seeing great grandchildren!
I agree with Tom on this one. A model T in good overall shape should be able to do better then 35 when needed. A well assmebled T is a amazing car and is quite stable at speed. my 15' has seen over 60 but likes 50-53 better. As for modifcation It has a 3to1 rucktell Z head, high flow intake and yes a dist. but no water pump
Mine cruises very nicely at 30-35 MPH. At 37 she starts to vibrate a little. At 42 the wood wheel and demountable rim combination begins to tell you its not 100% perfectly true. My concerns are stopping, and getting hit from behind. I've been hit from behind and now have an enduring love affair with my rear view mirror no matter what I am driving. Ruined a brand new set of tailor made Class-As, but I got a free helicopter ride with the nurse who cut them off. She got prettier and prettier as the morphine kicked in...
The modified engine on my 27 Tudor will push it to at least 55. I've done it ONCE with my GPS on board.
But I could feel the hand of God tapping me on the shoulder at those speeds. 45 at best, is about all I'm comfortable with and 35 feels just about right. It's not really how fast I'm going that concerns me it's the undisputed fact that a stock Model T flat won't stop, that's the issue.
I've had a lot of people ask me how to drive a Model T Ford. Before I go into the three peddle thing, spark advance etc. I advise them FIRST to drive as if the T had no brakes - period.
So far in 51 years of driving a T I've only had one really close call. I was in a line of traffic spaced about two and three car lengths apart. It was a narrow two-lane road. There was a line of traffic coming at us from the opposite direction. Suddenly a guy pulls out right in front of me and forces several cars off the road and into a front yard of a house. Fortunately we had someplace to go without hitting anything.
Some people stopped to see if we were okay. The consensus was the the offending driver was either drunk or on drugs.
Sometimes you simply don't have time to do anything but attempt to avoid an accident.
This car stopped quickly at 30-35 MPH. That happens when it goes end-over-end. Had disk brakes, too, as I recall.
To each his own. As someone who has been rear-ended, I'll take those odds anytime compared to driving 45-50+.
The confidence in driving my T is getting much better. Have had it on the open road ( a narrow 2 lane) for about 3 miles at got a little faster than I should have. Simply want to drive, enjoy and let the bystanders have a chance to see the past come alive. I am in no hurry to reach THE FINAL destination any earlier that I have to.
WOW Scott! Is that your car? My guess is not. No disrespect to Mr. Meek But I fail to see your point. or weak comparison. Somehow I knew we were headed down this road. I GIVE UP.
I was told one time when I was ridding Motor cycles that it is safe to ride one as long as your a little scared of it BUT as soon as you think you know how to ride it,park it or it will kill you. I think that this is good advise for the Model T Drivers also. Its not always the T or the driver but the unknown drivers that are out there around you.
I've was rear ended a couple of years ago, (no english spoken) after I was ask by the officers to pull my 4X4 ahead and my trailer hitch came out of there windshield and the front clip was removed from there Tempest I Drove home, It wasn't much fun.
Bob
Like every other hot button issue here in T-ville (e-timers, water pumps, ect.) one side apparently isn't going to change the others mind. If I'm supposed to be impressed by the pictures of T's on a major highway frankly I'm not. It's dumb. You have no business there. Especially if you can't do the posted speed + no running, turn signals or stop lights. ( I know it's standard. You think any body else knows?). You're that back hoe with 4-ways flashing screaming flat out at 35 MPH. Not everyone else is a moron. The fact is you're in the way. A few years back I spotted a news paper story on the back pages. "Model T Ford in accident". This couple got on the interstate to catch up with a tour they were on. Was the semi that turned them into hamburger in the wrong? Sure was. But it was a lapse of judgement that got them there. If you have to go that fast please do it in something that was meant to go that fast.
Mike
the topic is speed. Many or most on this thread have mentioned going quite fast in their cars, and then opining as to whether or not they felt safe. Some do, and some don't. Some proponents of higher speed have even suggested that it is safer than going 30 MPH. I wouldn't try to argue the point, as that is an opinion, and opinions don't carry the weight of facts, as facts are what matter in a debate, and this thread isn't a debate, nor am I trying to make it one.
However, the truth is that these cars are pushing 100 years old and even the best maintained car has the potential to suffer a catastrophic failure in use. The faster you're going at that time, the more serious it will likely be. I believe that my previous posting illustrates that point clearly. Additionally, I would not have posted this specific picture except for the fact that it had been posted in a previous thread.
Mentioned 11 times up to this post, is "brakes" (or lack thereof) as though that was the major reason to temper speed. That's true, but for nearly every part on a Model T, there is a 100 year old potential source for failure, many of which could have very serious consequences. High speed will compound, not minimize those consequences.
It's obvious from previous posts that you're a proponent of higher speeds than I'm comfortable with. God Bless you, go fast, and have fun! I'm not here to tell anyone to slow down, if that's how they choose to enjoy the hobby. However, I see many new posters and am reading about their new purchases. I've also read a number of posts about the thrill of high speed in their car (a recent post goes on at length about some sort of damage their engine had while accomplishing that feat). I believe it is a disservice to them and their families if they are not exposed to the realities associated with mechanical failures and speed. There was a picture some time ago of a hog's head that was blown apart from a magnet coming off when an engine accidentally was allowed to wildly rev. You've been in the hobby long enough that I'm sure you've seen it or one like it. Newcomers to the hobby should be exposed to this sort of information and let them decide for themselves as to how they wish to conduct themselves on the road.
Scott, Charlie, Thanks for the explanation. It does help. I respect your points of view. Please except my apologies.
Among the many things I do for my job is teach the National Safety Council's Defensive Driving Class.
Speed - unsafe speed for conditions (weather, road, traffic mix etc.) is the leading cause of auto related deaths. Every 10 MPH over 50 your odds for being kill in an accident DOUBLES. For example: you are 4X likely to be killed at 70 than 50 the only variable being speed and this is in modern iron.
Something to think about. Enjoy the drive but be careful out there.
Larry
I've slowed about 5-8 mph since Rochester last year. My 23 touring has done 53 mph in the quarter, and that is the top end. It is also white knuckle for me! With 4:1 steering ratio, a wriggle causes it to change lanes. 50 in a T feels like 100 on my motorcycle. I'm most comfortable at 70 on my motorcycle and 35-40 in the T. There are too many 80+ year old parts to break and cause a sudden change in suspension, engine, drivetrain, etc. to be going fast. I think a strong running engine's best asset is the ability to keep up with traffic in town and not hold it up on the hills, not necessarily top end. That is just my opinion, not scientific fact.
Noel
Mike
no offense was taken, and no offense was meant on my part, so your apology really wasn't necessary. Still, it is generous on your part and I appreciate it and the spirit it was given in. Healthy discourse and respectfulness is what makes me enjoy and appreciate most threads here.
Now, Happy T'ing to all, and please be safe (at whatever speed!)
John,
In 1978, when I was test driving my 1st speedster with with my friend (the old man that built it), I was stopped by an Arkansas State Trooper who clocked me with radar at 82mph. It won't do that now--especially with me in it! But, to do that, it had a balanced engin/trans, with aluminum L's instead of magnets, ball bearing 4th main,alum o'size pistons, o'size valves, ported with "B" model intake and exhaust manifolds, downdraft carb, dist, and oil pump. It has no body or fenders (just the cowl), monicle windshield, balanced 21" model A wires on front and 18" knobby's on the rear, beefed up wishbone, struts from the front axle to the side of the frame, "airplane" shocks, lowered front and rear axles, high speed ring and pinion in the Ruckstel, and a Muncie trans. As I got older I discovered it will also will go slow!
So, to answer, your question, T's can be made to go fast. May not be the smartest thing, but, it can be done, and only you can decide what's right for you.
No apology needed here either Mike. My .02. That's all.
I have been clocked at 76 miles an hour.. for a short burst of speed with a T crank and a flat head with a Layne Warford and a nasty cam shaft with modern ignition to get rid of the ghosts who wander about. In 1924 a T ran at the Indianapolis 500 at 84 miles an hour for 500 miles. Go slow if you wish it is your choice. ;~)
Hey Frank , did that T you speak of have a Fronteac or Rajo head?
Well Frank you beat me! I have been to 75 once with the Bender Special. My speedster's suspension was not set up for that speed and it was a wild ride to say the least. It has a 4 valve Rajo overhead with 1 to 1-1/2 rockers and 202 chev valves, pressurized A crank,frount plate bosh dist, homemade manifolds and a carter bb1 carb I have 12 speeds forward with a stock T 2 speed trans, seattle 3 speed and a ruckstell. It's a fun car. If I ever make it as far as southern CA I will look you up for a race.
Wow..... 75mph T. That's like riding a croch rocket (racing bike) and unhooking the brakes...! Sounds like too much go and not enough STOP for my liking.... Lol.
Beautiful speedster by the way......