Salvaging windsheld decals crucial to the car's history

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Salvaging windsheld decals crucial to the car's history
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 12:45 pm:

My 1926 Fordor has the original factory plate glass windshield. We all know how dangerous the original plate glass is and that it should be replaced with modern laminated safety glass, but what do you do if the original windshield has several decals that help to document the history of the car? In my case, my Fordor has a Chicago decal dated from 1932 which advertises Chicago as the Worlds Fair City.

While I will, one day want to replace the glass, I also want to salvage the decal and transfer it to the new glass if possible. Does anyone know if there is any way to salvage old decals? This info would also help anyone who has a car that has WWII gas rationing decals on the windshield which also have historical significance. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 12:52 pm:

PS. There was a World's Fair held in Chicago in 1933. The decal above the 1932 decal shows that 22 years later, in 1954, the car was still in the Chicago area of Oaklawn, which is a suburb of Chicago. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob from Nova Scotia on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 12:52 pm:

I would make replicas of the stickers, and keep the old glass and frame it for posterity in my garage


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 01:21 pm:

You could try putting a tape behind the sticker and with a razor blade scrape it off the glass. Today one can obtain clear tape so the sticker could still appear original. If you tried that with a modern Chicago sticker, I think void would appear on the sticker.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 01:25 pm:

I would also duplicate the sticker. I tried every way to remove a similar decal, and unfortunately, the decal is no longer with us.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 01:35 pm:

There are several ways to do this:

1: One way is to make a photograph and do a cut and paste on your windshield. The big problem is that most home printers use water based ink and it will not last.

2: Take a photograph and give a good label company a copy and they can make duplicates for you with good ink and can even apply an Avery-paper glue to the product for you. One will cost $25 and 100 will cost $35 if you have good art work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 05:39 pm:

I would just have a sign company or whatever make good copies.No way to remove those without ruining them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 05:55 pm:

Old decals are nearly impossible to remove without destruction even with an amoniated solution. The old lacquer and paste is the only thing holding them together. Dissolve the paste and the backing crumbles with the lacquer.

With some good photographs and a little Photo Shop-ing, you could reproduce them. Or at least have the artwork ready for someone else to do them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 05:58 pm:

Jim, The old decals were water transfers and as Ed and Mack have pointed out, impossible to remove. There is a post currently active requesting a large RAJO decal. There is a thread in it which has information about creating new decals on line!

Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 06:01 pm:

I found this http://www.sticviews.com/custom-decals.aspx

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 06:17 pm:

My '24 tudor had two old decals on the WS when I took it to a glass shop to use for a pattern.
I told them I wanted the old glass back and why.
They busted it up and tossed it.
I'm still pissed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David C Jahnke on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 07:07 pm:

New decals are the only viable option, but when you replace the old windshield, have the glass company cut a section glass that contains the old decals, and if possible, make it a standard size like 8x10 or 11x14. Then use that glass in a frame, with a while piece of paper behind it, and you can display the originals with the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Davidson, Southern Nevada on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 07:29 pm:

Cut them out of the glass and put in frames as mentioned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 08:20 pm:

Rob is right make new ones. I have made lots of decal replicas none that would be in direct sun though, but I know it is done. You can buy special decal Printer paper but the trick is to use a Laser printer and not water based Ink Jet printer. Take a photo of these decals and run then through Photo Shop program to clean them up and find someone that has a color Laser printer if you don't. Mine sometimes look better than the original. Also not all Decal paper is the same. I find that the more expensive Decal paper seems to work better.
Fred


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 09:43 pm:

Thank you everyone for the great suggestions. I think I will do a combination of ideas starting with Scott's suggestion to take the windshield to a glass cutter and have the glass carefully cut out with the decals intact to be framed, so that both sides are preserved and can be framed and displayed with the car, but before framing them, the cut glass with decals can be placed on a scanner to have an HD scanning made to scale with which to send to one of the sign makers that make decals and vinyl signs. Thanks again everyone for the great ideas and pointing me in the right direction. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 09:46 pm:

Anyone who does vinyl signs could whip those out in 5 minutes with a decent pic. ANd it would probably less than $20.

I've had similar work done locally here for about that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Friday, August 10, 2012 - 09:47 pm:

There was a company in Jonesboro, NC that would reproduce stickers like this. I do not know if they are still in business.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 03:17 am:

Cutting the glass might risk breaking it. i was thinking just glue new glass over the top of the old glass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne tomlins on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 04:26 am:

Those decals are unique &. single your T out.
I would love to have original stickers still on my car; I made some fakes up & try & convince myself they are 'authentic'.
I would leave the windshield alone.It has survived safely all these years. How 'safe' is driving a Model T today anyway? .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 10:59 am:

I would look for a clear laminate to put over the inside of the original glass so that if it breaks, it at least doesn't send shards flying. Almost like what window tinters use, but in a clear version. Should be able to find a product like this.

I wouldn't worry myself sick over not having safety glass. I think the decals are cooler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard D. Dennis on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 11:07 am:

When I lived in NY state the local windshield shops had a liquid that removed inspection stickers intact so they could be replaced on the new windshields.

Howard Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 11:32 am:

This decal (City College of San Francisco) was on the '21 Runabout when I purchased it. It's in pretty good shape and have left it on. It think it adds to the history of the car. I believe the windshield is original.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By grady l puryear on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 12:10 pm:

Park it on any street in Laredo, Texas, and I guarantee that they will be gone in a heartbeat, now getting them back is another thing. Seriously, I lost track of all the Inspection and License stickers I had stolen down there over the years. What I have found though is that a windshield replacement shop can remove one slick as a button, don't know how they do it, but have had several replaced without any problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 12:20 pm:

Water transfers are a whole different animal than the modern pressure sensitive "stickers" used today.The new decals are printed on a Mylar like substrate and can be removed but water transfers can not. - John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 12:45 pm:

Thread drift coming:

We all will die someday - question is when, and how?

Lots of safety advancements have been made over the years...do "we" care?

"...The first windshields, about 1903 in the United States, and soon after the first glass windows, were of plate glass, which breaks into long, sharp, dangerous shards. Henry Ford introduced the laminated windshield, first developed in Europe, for the Model T in 1927,...."
complete article can be read at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217380/

To each his own - personally, I'd keep my decals in a picture frame at home, rather than have one of my loved one's face or chest pierced by a shard. Looking at a decal on the windshield pales in comparison to looking at a bleeding spouse (or other special person).

Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 12:57 pm:

I wonder how many loved one's faces or chests were pierced by a shard during those years before safety glass? Anyone have articles of these horrific accidents? I'm interested in learning about this.

My '21 Runabout doesn't see much driving. But when I decide to make it a regular driver, I'm sure I'll replace that nasty dangerous original glass.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 02:34 pm:

When a razor sharp glass point slices through your eyeball and pierces your brain, it's very disappointing. If there's an aftermarket coating that will prevent glass shattering, I'd get it. If not, the window should come out and be a historical display.

A historical note: If I'm not mistaken, the wartime ration stickers were gummed paper, not decals.

Most, if not all, decals made today are sticky plastic. Are there still any water transfer decals being made?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 02:49 pm:

Dan B's suggestion to use a clear window laminate film on the glass, reminded me of a 3M product that used to be advertised here in Florida several years ago during the Hurricane season. I went online in search of clear hurricane window film. Here is one product that came up. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Markets-Produc ts/Residential/Safety-Security_Window_Films/. Has anyone ever used anything like this on auto windshield glass? Seems like something like this would give you the best of both worlds. Being able to keep your original factory glass and decals, while benefitting from the modern protection of laminated safety glass. Here is another one. www.diywindowsecurity.com. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 03:03 pm:

Jim,

It looks like these products could be an option for keeping your original glass. Thanks for information.

Orlando


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 03:28 pm:

maybe this?
http://www.llumar.com/en/AutoSafety.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 03:56 pm:

Get a copy of the glass cutting guide. They are available as reprints. Then You don't even have to take the glass to your cutting shop. Or even take the glass out a measure it. Have the new one cut to that size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard D. Dennis on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 06:59 pm:

My grandmother flipped a T coupe as a teenager and went out through the windshield. She said glass shards would exit her back for years afterwards.

Howard Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mitchell on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 07:24 pm:

Jim go to www.inspectionsticker.net I think you will find the decals that you want.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 08:37 pm:

"Dan B's suggestion to use a clear window laminate film ... Has anyone ever used anything like this on auto windshield glass?... Jim Patrick"

I have it on my '26 Touring original windshield glass and headlamp lenses — see profile pic. This type of product, applied window films (residential, commercial, automotive) was my business for many years.

This could be a satisfactory solution to preserving the decals and retaining the original glass. The best method is a layer on both sides of the windshield to create a glass sandwich. There are several thicknesses available, typically 4-mil, 7-mil, 11-mil and 15-mil. "Mil" in this case, refers to 1/1000".

Thicker films will obviously give better protection but the occasional dust speck (unavoidable when working with old glass and frames) creates a small-yet-visible air pocket that gets bigger and more noticeable with the thicker films. I used 7-mil on both sides of my windshield glass and the outside (flat surface) of the headlamp lenses. Application on the outside also gives a measure of stone-impact protection.

The scratch-resistant coating on the surface of the films is not highly UV resistant (UV absorbers are concentrated in the adhesive), so there is some deterioration from long periods of exposure to sunlight, but few would ever leave their Model T outside enough for this to be a problem.

Pre-trimming to a final fit is essential. All safety/security window films have a pressure-sensitive adhesive and are applied with slightly-soapy water but must be squeegeed HARD several times to create the optimum bond with the glass.

Sounds simple, but installation is tricky work and air and/or water bubbles, untidy edges, dust specks and scratches are sure signs of an amateur (and some so-called professional) installations.

My gut feeling is that a 7-mil application on both sides is a big improvement over plain glass but not perhaps on a par with laminated safety glass. I really wanted to keep my original glass and am content with the film, however, as a business we declined to do this sort of installation for customers in view of possible liability down the line.

Phollowing Photos: Pre-trimming the film before the clear liner is peeled off the adhesive side; One of several squeegee passes to set up the adhesive; Trimming the headlamp film after installation.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Saturday, August 11, 2012 - 11:06 pm:

Personally, I'd remove the glass frame and all .. and keep as a display, as someone else had mentioned. Install a replacement frame with new glass.

That being said ... Now I probably need to do the same with mine!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 04:38 am:

Use the old glass as a picture frame or a table?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 10:11 am:

Thanks for the tutorial Chris. I was wondering about laminating both sides and what the best thickness was to use. Glass film is worth a great deal of consideration, especially since it will help to preserve the original glass windshield and historical decals while making the glass almost as safe as safety glass. This has been a very eyeopening and educational thread.
Thank you. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 01:40 pm:

shattered safety glass windshield:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, August 12, 2012 - 05:44 pm:

Let me throw out this idea.
How hard is it to get another frame,and if going to a show,switch windsheilds?


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