I found this in the encyclopedia. I have never seen any restored cars with the muffler wrap black, even Stynoski cars.
Is it correct and has anyone done this? And are the bands painted black as well?
Muffler 1911-1914 Similar to 1910 but tail pipe tapered and curved downward.
The retaining rods were changed to have a hexagon head on one end. The asbestos wrap was dyed black.
I read that also, is it true?
No one seems to know for sure.
It is true, and Bruce found that detail on the muffler wrap in the archives at the Benson Ford.
I can't see much of the muffler wrap in this picture but it sure is not white.
Should the bands be black as well?
I have a friend with a beautiful restored 1913 touring. His muffler wrap is white, but I am not sure if it is supposed to be white.
Stephen
I just got back from the Benson Ford archives, and there was a photo of several new '14 tourings. All had the white asbestoes, as pictured in the photo above.
Was the asbestos wrap mostly for sound deadening or to cut the heat down? One might expect the answer to be 'yes' ....
Yup the '14 mufflers in the picture sure look to have white asbestos as Bruce said they should.
Bruce had this in the encyclopedia:
10-11-12 T-1215 Asbestos
Specified to be dyed black
08-28-13 T-1215 Asbestos
Removed note specifying this asbestos to be dyed black
Also, from 1912:
OCT 18 Acc. 575, Letter 357
T-1215. Muffler Asbestos. “Added note specifying this asbestos to be dyed black. Note: If possible we would like to have the muffler asbestos which we have on hand colored black in some way, also that the muffler straps be black enameled.”
This is interesting.
So do these notations mean that it was definitely done? Would a 1912 car have black asbestos and black muffler straps? Would that be correct?
Yes it means it was done. Why would Ford send out a memo to quit doing it if it was not done?
Well now, I guess the quest is on to find a factory photo with the dyed muffler wrap
Okay, good. Thanks Royce.
Wonder why none of the show cars we see seem to have them black...
Looking at the photo that Royce pictured, it appears the muffler could have been black.
The dates are past 1912 production. Looks to me like the only cars to have black wraps would be the 1913. Possibly the very early 14s too.
Looking at Royce's picture, the muffler appears to me to be white with black binding--Just as in the factory photo.
For judging purposes, would a car without real asbestos wrap of the muffler lose points? Would you want it in your garage?
Hey Doc - is it not only the dust from asbestos particles are what causes medical issues? When replacing underground utilities, we would uncover old AC (asbestos-concrete) water main (pipe) and would cut it out of the way with a hand saw with water poured over the blade to reduce the airborn particles.
Absolutely I would want real asbestos in my garage if I could get a piece to wrap the muffler in. It is not dangerous unless you are injesting it somehow. I would not lick the muffler, or fondle it excessively.
Looking at the dates it appears to be a 1913 model year only thing as Ken pointed out.
The problem with asbestos is that it breaks down into microscopic needle like particles that become part of the dust in the area and are inhaled. There they migrate to the outer parts of the lung and are attacked by the body's immune system and white blood cells, which are shish kabobed by them and die. The constant irritation caused by the thousands of particles causes scarring of the lung tissue and loss of the normal elasticity of the lung, necessary for exhalation. Also, the irritation increases the chance of cancer developing a hundred-fold. The most notorious cancer caused by it is mesothelioma, which develops on the outer lining of the lung against the inner chest wall and is near universally fatal. I lost a dear friend to this about 8 years ago. Yes he smoked. He also lived in a parsonage for about 12 years that had uncovered asbestos in it. If the asbestos is covered and sealed in, it cannot get into the air and cannot cause a problem. If it is cut into, however, it releases lots of fine dust like particles that are the problem. If it is open to the air, like as a wrap over pipes or insulation, any air movement in the area also picks up the fine particles and they can be inhaled.
Noel
I just looked at some additional photos that Royce posted a while back, and it appears the muffler wrap is white. This is the same car, but the photo is from the rear.
A very nice asbestos substitute is called Fiberfrax. You can buy it in sheets or rolls. It's white, (if you want white), and insulates many times better than asbestos.
http://www.fiberfrax.com/
I have seen factory photos of the pre-Ts up to 1910 with the white asbestos. For example, Bruce's book page 27 shows white asbestos with bare steel straps. I have not done enough research for 11-12-13 on the asbestos, but there is a factory photo from late 13 which shows the white asbestos with black straps, as also mentioned for 1914 above. If there was a time around 1912 when the asbestos was dyed black, I would believe the archive records. I don't know of a photo.
I did some research on the straps when I made some to original specifications a while back.
The straps were bare steel until mid October 1912 when they were then painted black through the end of 1916.
The non-asbestos material is also available by the foot from:
http://vintagesteamproducts.com/
Make sure you fold the ends correctly! Here are a couple examples from cars owned by Mino and Dobbins:
Here is the one from the dobbins car:
Jerry, does Fiberfrax turn brown from heat? My '14's muffler looks like a giant Tootsie Roll.
RV,
I've had it on my Overland for years and it's still white, although somewhat discolored from road dirt. Also have it on my Model N and still very white.
Dunno Royce, it just might be:
Garnet
Thanks Jerry; I'll give it a try.
In case anyone is crazy for details, the straps were actually made from tin until mid October 1912, when they were changed to black enameled steel.
Appears the muffler covering was white on most factory photos.
This original '16 still has a tiny bit of white asbestos wrap on the muffler, or what is left of the muffler