Family legal 'issues' are bleeding me dry. All I'm going to say about that is that concerns one of my daughters, my grand children, and some very expensive lawyers. I might have to consider selling 'Lizzie'.
I have other 'options' and it wouldn't be worth it if I couldn't get at least $8,000 out of her. Pictures are deceiving, The paint and upholstery are at least 60 years old, It's got dings and scratches and rust holes in one running board apron. The front end and rear end still need to be rebuilt. It's a 'survivor' as near as I can determine, the body has never been off the frame. It's got a custom built engine/trans from Gen III with a 12 volt alternator, starter, Z head, high lift cam, adjustable lifters, and a lot more I'm not going to bother to get into. New top, Brassworks radiator and it comes with with the complete 'numbers matching' engine (coils, starter, generator, carb, everything) on a crate 'pickeled'. It was running when I pulled it out in 2007 but it was worn out. I have everything I've replaced on this car including the original radiator and gas tank (both in need of repair) and I might even throw in my Model T belt buckle to the right guy. She's a turn key 'daily driver' but not in the kind of shape I'd consider taking on tour.
Like I said in the beginning, I have other options and 'Lizzie' isn't technically for sale at this point, I'm just looking for a little input from guys in the know.
That's unfortunate, Dennis. I hope everything works out for your daughter and grandkids and you are able to keep that T.
Good luck, Sir.
Sorry to hear you've got that kind of difficulty. My heart goes out to you, my friend. May God bless and keep all of you.
Dennis,
I'm sorry to hear of the difficulty. If you have other modern cars you could sell and "IF" the T could be pressed into daily service for the duration, you could consider selling one of the modern cars. I don't know how far you drive everyday. But in my case work is only 3 miles away and the traffic would be ok if I went in early and took off early. So if I had to, I could easily use a good enclosed T for to from work for a year. I'd also have to change the type of insurance etc. And in general a year from now the T would be worth about the same and the modern iron would have depreciated another year.
If you are going to put Lizzie on the market, I recommend the fall or spring. I think they are more fun to drive then. Sorry, I don't have a good estimate for what the car would bring. While I am not a fan of e-bay -- having someone with a good e-bay reputation list it for you is one way to find out what it would bring -- you could put the reserve price on it and it would sell or not. A quick look at the Model T Swap site at: http://mtfca.com/showit1/index.html has a 24 coupe in better shape but a little more and a 26 Tudor with a Ruckstell for a little less.
Again, good luck and we will be praying for wisdom for you. The family is more important than the cars. As an aside, I recently read a book by Dr. Henry Cloud called “Necessary Endings.” It has been helpful to me in figuring out better ways to deal more appropriately and wiser with other people that have major issues.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Dennis, I would hate to see you leave the hobby because of a temporary setback. I have always admired your '26 Tudor and would most certainly be interested in it if I didn't already have a '26 Fordor and a '26 Coupe taking up the available garage space I have. There is also the matter of a broken leg I am slowly (too slowly) trying to recover from.
If I had the available garage space and both good legs, I would buy it from you, maintain it, keep it as is and, if you ever decided to return to the hobby, would sell it back to you. That is if I didn't fall too much in love with her and being a follow Floridian, logistics would be no problem for you to come visit her.
Wishful thinking.
Jim Patrick
PS. Just out of curiosity, how is the interior?
Denis, People come and go in our lives, spouses, family, friends, known and unknown, even we the caretakers of these machines pass. My second wife once told me "why don't you get rid of that pile of junk", she was referring to my 53 F100 I had in pieces at the time. I replied to her then that I would have it after she's long gone, at the time I didn't realize what I was saying, but today I can tell you that the truck has been with me since 1973, she has been dead 7 years and divorced 14 years before that. What I'm trying to say is, all that happens in your life is just another chapter in the story of your life, and guess what, you are the author. My thoughts would be yourself first, all others second.
Dennis,
I think I know exactly what you're going through. I'm enduring the same set of circumstances right now. Daughter, grandchildren, and incredibly expensive lawyers. It's all about money, and the expenses for defending our side of this matter pile up very quickly. $400 an hour.
I will probably wind up cashing out a life insurance policy or two. I could always sell my 27 tudor and perhaps buy one just like it at a later time. They aren't particularly rare.
But, I've owned this old Ford for 45 years, and I've grown fond of it. There actually isn't one out there just like it. There aren't two tudors that are just alike. They are all individuals.
Believe me, I see your predicament. I wish us both well.
Jim
I don't know your daughter's problem, and don't want to. But I will tell you of what happened in the case of my daughter's divorce. They could have agreed to split everything 50-50 and would both come out of it with something, but they chose to fight it and both lost everything they owned. The attorneys got rich. Now, if this is a criminal case or a civil libality case, it might be worth fighting, but not in the case of a divorce.
Norm
Norm,
The key word is Grandchildren.
Custody, visitation, child support all complicate matters -- and make lawyers rich.
Jim M. - Add second mortgage, and 401K to your list of money sources.
...which is why lawyers (legislators who are attorneys) shouldn't be making the laws.
Not an anti-lawyer rant here--I know plenty of good guys/gals who are lawyers--just a conflict of interest I've seen for a long time. No offense intended to anyone.
The best of friends could decide on a divorce, until the lawyers inject doubts and antagonism, and make them mortal, spiteful enemies. That's when the lawyers clean up.
There's a divorce lawyer in the old car hobby here. I won't let him near my wife...
So Dennis,
Are you looking at finding out what it is worth ?
It is worth what an honest and appreciative buyer
is willing to pay from an honest and forthright seller such as yourself.
Jim
When is the last time you heard of a lawyer NOT cleaning up?
Isn't it odd you can file a once in a lifetime medical bankruptcy but not a lawyer bankruptcy?
The problem with selling a newer vehicle instead is it might not bring as much as the T......
Whatever the legal issues are I sincerely hope you can dig your way out!
R.V. - I agree; not the place for an "anti-lawyer rant", however, another way of explaining the "conflict of interest" you mentioned is that our "lawmakers" ("legislators who are attorneys" as you say) not only make too many laws, but far too many of those laws are designed with what I call "built-in controversy" to make sure that lawyers get their (usually) far too big a slice of the pie!
I realize that none of this stuff like I just wrote is any help to you Dennis, but I hope "things" work out for your family and for you. Again, not a "rant", but as has been pointed out, there is too often "legal advice" that is cleverly disguised to appear to be in the best interest of the party(s) involved, but in reality, is mostly designed for the best intre$t of the lawyer(s), and it sometimes takes someone older, more mature and experienced (read Dad) to see through all that, and recognize that there is sometimes a point reached where it is just plain "time to cut losses and run"! (before the lawyers become the big winners at the expense of the client(s)
Thanks for the replies guys. Let me put it this way, my gold and silver will go before Lizzie goes. I don't drive Lizzie as much as I used to now that I have the Rambler because the the Rambler will jump on the Interstate and go as fast as the best of them. With Wilwood power disc brakes, it will stop with the best of them too. I plan to leave Lizzie to my oldest daughter's husband and his young son. I keep her in their garage and it's been my grandson's own private amusement park since he's been old enough to get the doors open. He already knows more about a Model T than any other 5 year old because we can't work on her without him being right in the middle of everything.
It's been an expensive couple of years. My oldest daughter is a breast cancer survivor and though she had great health insurance from her job, the time she lost from work, the breast reconstruction and the absolutely outrageous co-pays on the pills she has to take cost me a fortune to keep the bill collectors from taking everything they owned. I'm not going to get into what is going with my middle daughter and my 11 year old grand daughter except to say it all started out with a form she filled out in a school sex education class that she later admitted she filled out "just for fun". Word to the wise for those of you who have pre-teen daughters monitor EVERYTHING they do on the computer. It will scare you to death when you see what they have access to and you could easily find yourself in the mess that my daughter and her husband are in with 'the powers that be' before you ever know what hit you.
So THAT'S what it's all about.
So the kid typed up a few fantasies and everyone is making a federal case out it.
That's nothing some COMMON SENSE and a flat hand wouldn't cure inside of 5 minutes......if this was 30 years ago.
Pity.......
They teach three things in law school: 1.-Get your money. 2.-You're not the one going to jail, and 3.-Get your money!
Let me give you a hypothetical. Last year My wife's daughter (from her first marriage) and my 2 step grand daughters were living with us for 9 months. Their mother and her husband were going through some marital difficulties, long since resolved.
I raised 3 bright and successful daughters (in a middle class way), I'm a 'daddy's girl' dad. The younger of the 2 step grand daughters (11 at the time) was my shadow, she went everywhere with me. I took them to school and picked them up in 'Lizzie', I took their little friends for rides in it, it's just the way I'm made.
A month or so ago she called me as she does once in a while and during the conversation she said "Grandpa do you remember when you pulled your pants down?" To which I replied "WHAT?". She said "You know, Pants on the ground, pants on the ground, looking like a fool with your pants on the ground". This is what she's talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMwhl4IrPNc (feel free to skip the friggin Obama commercial).
At NO TIME was any part of my anatomy exposed or even my underwear, I had a shirt with tails on at the time. The girls thought it was hilarious (hilarious enough for Wilma to still remember it) and 'goofy grandpa was just fooling around and it was an object lesson. Don't bring Grandpa any of these boys with their pants hanging off their Butt.
Fast forward to now and what my daughter is going through. After the phone call I started thinking. What if Wilma was to say in a sex ed. class "My grandpa pulled his pants down". Knowing what I know now, the avalanche would be rolling down the hill and context be dammed, I would be accused of doing 'something sexual' with my grandchildren. If she tried to explain the situation to these child protective people, she would be told she was being 'coached' to cover up 'something' else, just as my 11 year old grand daughter is now.
To sum things up, I have removed all my grandchildren from my facebook 'friends' list because I'm afraid that I might say something in the course of a conversation that can be used against me in a court of law by these people who apparently have absolutely draconian powers and that's a pretty sad state of affairs.
Our liar is charging us $300 an hour.
Our son was a stay-at home father.
Then came the split.
For $6000 so far the son's X brings the 3&4 year old girls to our house two days a week and every other sunday. My son gets here just after the kids get here.
For an extra few $$ he gets to take them to his place or wherever he wants to take them.
Then for even more money they now stay overnight here with my son or at my son's place on thursday night.
There is no reason she couldn't have let that happen without the lawyers.
life's a bitch....& then you die.
The hypothetical is pretty much what I was expecting.......a big brouhaha over nothing.
It's the American lawyers' way and the, NOW, over-reactionary, overboard system.
"Find a problem and overreact to it".
As I said, 30 years ago a simple explanation and that would have been the end of it.
You have my empathy. I got stuck in a situation once too that was so overblown it was a joke......but not for me.
Dont do it!!!!!
I'd try to keep some perspective here Dennis. You've mentioned selling off other things besides the T. I understand family comes first but is it really necessary to dig your own grave by selling assets or cashing in policies as opposed to the car? Sure you want to pass it on but the kid is 5 years old. A lot can happen in the 13 or so years that will pass before he can do anything with it. You don't drive it plus it's apparently in the best shape it's going to ever be at least as long as you own it. Therefore: best price. You sound old enough to know s*** happens and guess what? It'll happen again. You have to keep your head above water too. You mention a second hobby car that's getting use. If it was me, in your situation, and I felt I had to do something, the T would top the "to go" list. It's reasonably fast cash and it's totally replaceable and totally un-necessary.
Charlie, it's economics. I can't get enough money out of the T to really make a difference. I just threw that against the wall to see if it would stick, so to speak.
My Mrs. and I are pretty well set up. We're not 1%er's but we're not 'poor'. 'Cashing in' the T, the Rambler or some of my gold and silver assets, is spending my children's inheritance rather than leaving it to them.
My cars are my sanctuary, that's where I go when I'm sick and tired of dealing with life in general. A little ride does wonders for my peace of mind