Crack in tail shaft

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Crack in tail shaft
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 09:02 pm:

I found the cracks after blasting it so I could tig and re-drill the holes under the clutch fingers. Is this a death sentence for the tail shaft?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 09:36 pm:

If it's a fabbed-steel housing it seems like you could run a bead on those cracks on both sides and get more life out of it.

But if it's a machined cast iron or cast steel part, maybe not...

One of these gurus has the right answer...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 09:38 pm:

Looks like you could rout out the cracks, then tig the whole smear back together rivets and all. You need to make sure its steel and not malleable or gray iron. I think you would then want to re-squeeze the rivets and face the flange true to the tailshaft.

It would be simpler to just get another part. Somebody on the forum can most likely help you out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 09:43 pm:

Id be afraid of warpage if I were to weld it. Doesn't take but a tiny change in dimension to throw off the alignment. The parts are so cheap and available I'd find another. Worse case scenario is you'd have to replace the bushing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

The oblong hole for the clutch push ring tells me that that part needs to be replaced. If the hole becomes too oblong the clutch fingers will miss the push ring pins and you will be permanently engaged in gear.
That part has too many problems, replace it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 10:19 pm:

The one I'm preparing to install has been welded shaft to flange.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - 11:30 pm:

Hey Bob, If it were mine I'd weld it up and run it...What could the downside possibly be? If it broke, it might ruin the fourth main cap of course, and then the transmission might whip around and break the crank shaft, but if it didn't you'd save that $50.00 you might spend on a better flange...Just my random thoughts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 12:28 am:

Failure there leaves you without brakes...;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 06:07 am:

That needs replaced! Look at how wallowed out the holes are where the clutch push plate posts go through.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 08:47 am:

That Plate needs to be replaced.
Clearly welding Isn't an option as since the portion cracked is cast iron it will crack at the weld bringing you back to where you started.

When the cracks are this obvious without magnafluxing then it's had a hard life as we see with the worn finger holes.

Get another and have it crack checked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 11:09 am:

Tiged this in with 308 stainless, but it did not work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 11:58 am:

Maybe they're not all the same? Mine shows pretty good weld fillets between the flange and the shaft. Guess I'll have to take some pix.

The mainshaft is at the machine shop right now, getting trued up on a centerless grinder. It's +/- 0.006 off.

Thanks to Gene Carrothers for lending the height gauge and the Tulsa write-up, "Transmission Shaft Alignment," I'll end up with a better tranny.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 12:39 pm:

Just took these:



In case you wonder: the shaft has been cut down for a ball bearing fourth main.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 12:43 pm:

Ralph,

I really don't mean this to be sarcastic but, that's a piece of junk. It was a "blacksmith" attempt to repair loose rivets in the tail shaft.

Do I see a crack coming from the pressure plate hole down to the Ford logo?

(No offense meant for blacksmiths either)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 12:46 pm:

Have you dye checked this as Bob Shirley has?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 01:29 pm:

Hey Ralph, I have some dye check spray if you want to stop by again?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 02:01 pm:

"Do I see a crack coming from the pressure plate hole down to the Ford logo?"

No, what you see is a witness mark from the arm. The other holes have them, too.

I showed these pix to question those who claim the plate is cast iron. I've never seen cast iron take welding with fillets that good. Maybe earlier plates are cast iron? Bob, is yours a T730B?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 05:00 pm:

Ralph,

I don't believe they're cast iron either. Cast steel or malleable iron probably.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 05:18 pm:

Ralph, Are you going to stress relieve that assembly before using it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 07:47 pm:

I get my stress relief right here, John. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Woolf on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 08:02 pm:

The drive plate is cast iron. Several years ago we needed one for a friends car and the only decent one that was readily available had the pin holes elongated. We fired up the barbecue grill in back yard and preheated the plate. When it was hot I used an oxy acetylene torch with the proper flux and a cast iron rod and closed up the holes. Once the holes were filled it was allowed to cool slowly. After cooling the holes were drilled. I guess it worked OK. The car has been driven 7 or 8000 miles and just completed the HCCA tour in Colorado.

Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 08:21 pm:

I had 2, the second had lose rivets. The shaft holes were really bad and on the plate metal was pushed up around the holes. Cut the plate flat and made oversize rivets from grade 5 blots.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 08:37 pm:

Using bolts and indexing the shaft around I got it to .004 out at the ball cap. Drilled the holes for the new rivets and put it together. Then cut it for an oversize ball cap, I'll pour one in the morning.


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