Water Chrome...?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Water Chrome...?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 01:26 am:

Anyone else ever see this process ? Lot's of videos on youtube about this stuff. How bout it Ken your our plating guy is this a load of crap or what ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=3V_2dhklg4E


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 01:41 am:

When something sounds to good to be true - it probably ain't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 03:33 am:

Question is, was that a plastic helmet or metal. I lot of chromed plastic looks sprayed on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By don ellis on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 07:56 am:

I've seen it in person. It looks very good. The only way you can spot it's not real is the reflection, it's not as clear and crisp. All and all if you weren't looking for it you wouldn't notice it wasn't real chrome.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 09:58 am:

It wears like paint, scratches and fades in the sun. Here is a bumper after a few months of road use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By don ellis on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:01 am:

That's not good, I only saw it fresh.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:06 am:

Unless you owned a lot of the spray rig stuff, you'd have more in your chrome job than if you sent it off to be done with the normal process. Besides, my results wouldn't be as nice. I don't have any tatoos!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 11:30 am:

My understanding is that you can buy kits that range between $5000 and $10,000 Jay Leno uses it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 12:00 pm:

I saw it about a year ago and it was Jay Leno who was having it demonstrated for us to see. Seems you have to have a special primer and you can chrome anything but very very expensive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 12:07 pm:

here is the link to the Jay Leno video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-1cTpSZ1l8&feature=youtu.be


Robbie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 02:50 pm:

Looks like it would be a good solution for re-silvering reflectors. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 04:00 pm:

The system for doing this is called Chrome F X and is made by the Alsa Company in Vernon, CA.

The entire system runs somewhere around $10,000-$12,000. It is a multi-step process with one of the steps being the application of an extremely high-gloss, two part catalied white undercoat.

The part needs to be completely smooth for best results. Once the "chrome" is developed using the developer chemical, it has to be top coated with a clear coat (which may also be tinted) for the "chrome" to last.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 04:01 pm:

That should have been catalized.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 04:07 pm:

OK - I'm going to ask the cat about that stuff!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 05:15 pm:

Actually, it's not chrome at all. Otherwise it wouldn't be "safe". It's silver. That's why it must be top-coated to survive the elements. It's basically the same process used to make mirrors and reflective Christmas bulbs. An ammoniated silver salt is combined with a formic aldehyde which causes the silver to separate or drop out of solution onto the surface. The reducing agent must be applied simultaneously with the application of the silver compound. It's a very thin coating of silver that will come off if rubbed. Even if top-coated (clear) the adhesion of the silver to the surface can't be guaranteed.

Not sure how they're getting away with calling it "chrome". And as with any plating process, the preparation of the subsurface controls the quality of the finish. You can't just spray the stuff on and expect a mirror finish.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 05:30 pm:

Jim
That is what I was looking at maybe small parts like reflectors ect... something that would be sealed up after the process. but according to Ken it's not up to par...

Thank's Ken
I knew if anyone knew anything about it you would,Thanks for the input.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 05:44 pm:

To answer an earlier question: It's a plastic helmet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 05:48 pm:

It would work well on glass reflectors (mirrors) since the back side would be coated or sealed and silver would be protected by the glass.

Keep in mind that the silver nitrate used in the process costs about $600 per liter in 2.5% solution. You can buy 100ml for about $68 but the rest of the compounds will put a single process over $100. It's hardly worth trying to do a couple of mirrors yourself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 06:18 am:

Seeing that i want to do my whole car with it. Never going to happen though. What could you do to make the finish last longer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 07:41 am:

With the way they are flowing that stuff on, it looks like something only Jay Leno or Bill Gates could afford. Certainly not this T guy at those prices, especially if the silver coating is delicate, temporary and fleeting.

Ken, I hope you will, one day, expand your nickel plating operation to be able to do larger items such as radiator shells and bumpers. Nobody is easier to deal with or does better, more reasonably priced work. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 07:56 am:

how would you apply it to a piece of glass such as a mirror if it had to have a base coat? wouldn't the process have to be done in reverse? And if it could be done, would it be functionable in a working headlight or would it scorch off the glass as would paint in a hot environment?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 11:36 am:

Like I said, unless you're one of the ones proposed to be taxed heavily, it is out of range for the average restorer. Plus the longevity of it isn't that great. I'd rather spend 10 grand for another T or two, than to buy a "chroming" process that would receive limited use and not long lasting results at that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 04:24 pm:

Robbie - A base coat is necessary to provide a smooth and consistent surface. You don't need a base coat if the surface you're "plating" is glass or already polished like brass, etc.

Jim - Thanks for "the flowers". :-) I would if I had the room and a way to keep it (the equipment) busy. Since my plans of reproducing radiator shells has stopped, I can't justify the increased capacity. Chemistry and maintenance is just too expensive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 04:34 pm:

Terry - I've had your control rods ready. I thought your were sending more items for that "barter" item your brought over. PM me with your address and I'll ship those out anyway. I still owe you some plating.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Nelson on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 05:10 pm:

I don't thing Ford used Chrome on model T's???????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 10:42 pm:

Rick, He didn't. He used nickel, but most people can't tell the difference until the nickel tarnishes and they have to polish or replate. That is why you mainly see true nickel on show vehicles. After all, chrome plating is a three step process if done right; copper, nickel, chrome.


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