OT Towing Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: OT Towing Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:02 pm:

Actually, I guess it is on topic because I intend to tow the TT.

We have a 2006 Acura MDX with a tow package which we use to tow our boat, a 18' Fish and Ski that has a total trailer weight of about 2,500 pounds. The MDX tows it just fine.

I plan (I think) to rent a U-haul car trailer to haul the TT about 260 miles round trip in one day. It's just a one time trip and will never happen again. I THINK the empty U-haul trailer weighs about 2,000 pounds. I KNOW the TT weighs 2,260 pounds (I had it weighed), for a total trailer weight of about 4,260 pounds.

The MDX is rated "4,500 pound maximum trailer weight" for boat trailers and "3,500 pounds maximum trailer weight" for other trailers. What do I need to know here? First, why the different ratings for a boat trailer vs. others? Towing the TT on an open car trailer doesn't seem any different to me than towing a boat and boat trailer. Second, even if the 4,500 pound rating applies, am I pushing it too close to it's limit? I sorta think I know the answer to this question, but I'd like to hear what you guys think.

I hate to borrow or rent a truck, but if that's what I gotta do I'd prefer to know it now and make whatever arrangements I need. The trip is planned for Sept. 1, so I have a little time to get this worked out.

Thanks for any input!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:14 pm:

If you decide take the Acura to rent a trailer big enough to haul a TT it is best you tell the rental place you are hauling a large couch or something.
I tried to rent a trailer to haul a fifties Fiat 500 behind my Mazda RX2 and ended up borrowing a trailer as the rental place wouldn't let me rent their trailer. If they had seen the Fiat I'm sure they would have.
You would be under the recommended load rating and it would be a one-time deal. Go easy, pay attention and do it either durring rush hour when the traffic is slow or do it when traffic is lightest.
You might consider hunting for an independant tow company to do it cheap enough and save the woories.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:24 pm:

Here, U-Haul has dedicated car/toy haulers they rent. I used to rent them a couple times a year when I was buying and selling a lot of cars.

As for making a load rating recommendation, I can tell you this - I've hauled a more with less. I towed a 69 Firebird with an 88 Nissan Sentra once. Twelve miles over relatively level terrain.

However, having said that, you should use your own judgement on this one as only you know the power and handling capabilities of the car, the terrain you'll be driving over, etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:35 pm:

Henry ...
You should be fine, as long as you take it easy... especially keeping the speed down to prevent swaying. Your hauled weight will be getting close .. or more .. than your vehicle weight. The issue would more likely not be go'n or haul'n .. but stop'n. I think all their open dual-wheeled car haulers have brakes. I don't remember if the one I used had electric .. or mechanical, but in either case, they worked well I certainly wouldn't rely on your vehicle's brakes for this kind of a load.

U-Haul has several different sized haulers. Don't use the dolly .. but as you state .. you aren't. Don't bother trying to do it on line, and be truthful, as their car listings don't go back far enough. :-)

My one time trip to pick up my Dad's T was almost identical ... except I only had Toyota Camray or Corolla's .. an either had a hitch. I wouldn't have used either, anyway, as they would have been too small. I borrowed my father-in-law's pickup, and paid him back with a full tank of fuel (saddle back fuel tanks!)

Best of luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:35 pm:

Boats tend to have a lower center of gravity on trailers, there fore when stopping they transfer less tongue weight to the hitch.

The TT on a car trailer will have a relatively high center of gravity so it will tend to push down hard on the hitch under braking. This tends to lift the front wheels of the tow vehicle, leading to control problems, fish tailing, etc. That is why the lower rating is given for "other than boat" trailers.

The problems are magnified when going down hill, and the faster you go the worse it is going to be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:36 pm:

Bottom line I would try to borrow a suitable pickup.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:37 pm:

When the limit is stated as 4500 pounds - it's not so that it will tumble over or break anything. Engineers always operate with a security margin that may go 50% over.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 01:56 pm:

If the TT has an aux tranny with a neutral, the best deal is to tow it on all fours. It's more stable than any trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Harrison,Norco Ca on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 02:03 pm:

I think the real problem you may have is just being able to rent a trailer. Uhaul and also United rentals (only ones I have experience with) are really careful about size of tow vehicle vs. what could potentially be towed on the trailer.Years ago I could not rent a car trailer to pull behind my Toyota 4 runner which was a pretty heavy vehicle.Today with my 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 no problemo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 04:31 pm:

Ralph - I know that you have a particular hatred for trailers, but I didn't realize that you hated trailers THAT MUCH!

I can't even "picture" towing a TT on it's own wheels behind an Acura MDX!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 04:44 pm:

Think out of the (TT) box, Harold...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark McWethy on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 05:03 pm:

For what it's worth. I have a 1926 TT. I just towed it up to Silver City,NM with my 1991 E350. The trailer has electric brakes so stopping was no worry. On the flats I was able to maintain 60-65 with no problem. Any kind of a hill on the other hand was interesting to say the least. I had to go into the "I think I can" mode on any sizable hills. We made the trip fine and had a great show. I know the truck is no spring chicken but it is set up for load hauling. Above all be safe and careful. Hope you enjoy yourself.
Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 07:42 pm:

I think the reason you are allowed a higher load with a boat trailer is because the boat and trailer are designed to be loaded correctly. Towing a trailer with a load that is too far back, will cause the trailer to fishtail, once this happens, there is only one way to stop the trailer from swaying, and that is to accelerate, it is counter-intuitive to do this, but attempting to slow down will only make the swaying worse. If you do not have enough power in the tow vehicle, you will not be able to accelerate to stop the swaying, once you are able to stop the trailer from swaying, you can slow down carefully and stop as soon as possible and move the load forward.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 08:41 pm:

Mark,

That is instructive for sure. If an E350 which is fully rated for towing a load like that can be squirrelly just imagine what it would be like using the Acura at 2500 pounds less vehicle weight. Sounds scary to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 09:07 pm:

Henry,
Because boat trailer regularly have their axles submerged when launching and loading the boat, thus getting the brakes wet, they typically have surge brakes rather than electric brakes.
That may have something to do with the difference in tow rating,
By the way, if you are using a trailer with electric brakes, what kind of brake controller will you use? I didn't know any better, so I bought a time based controller. They are crap!
FWIW
Roar


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 09:24 pm:

The axle(s) on a boat trailer are way back there, so the trailer doesn't have as much leverage on the hitch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 10:39 pm:

Hmm ... I've never actually SEEN a land yacht before! Hope the ball holds on that hitch. I doubt if the safety chains will be of much help!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, August 19, 2012 - 11:52 pm:

Towing 4260 lbs with an Acura MDX is an accident waiting to happen. You have only the car brakes and twice the weight, so stopping at speed could be a real problem. Your tow load is the same as your car weight and the tow cg is much higher. Handling will be a problem.

Going cheap here does not make sense. You are overloading a very nice car and risking thousands and lives in order to save a few pennies. As Royce said, get a truck, or hire a flat bed wrecker.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 10:14 am:

Well, there sure are a variety of opinions on the this subject and I thank you for them all!!

I have good a friend who has a 3/4 ton pick-up. I guess I'll "invite" him to come on this trip.

Thanks again for all your comments!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 11:00 am:

I think you've found the perfect solution. :-) Maybe you'll instil a new passion in him, and next year you will be helping HIM haul one home!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Ragan on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 11:02 am:

If you go to Uhaul website and input the info required, it will tell you if your tow vehicle will qualify. If it doesn't, they won'r rent you the trailer. You might pick it up with a friends pick up and then transfer it over to the Acura but the insurance probably won't cover you in case of an accident. Also, having just rented a Uhaul car carrier I think the oldest listed Ford on their website is a '28.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 11:39 am:

The friend with the pick-up is the same friend who hauled the ol' truck home from San Jose in the first place about 10 or 11 years ago. The TT was in pretty sad shape. He laughed at me the whole trip home. I told him that he'd eat his words and ride with me in it in the 4th of July parade, and that's how it turned out. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 11:51 am:

Every time I read about a pickup towing a trailer, I think about how light they are in back, and therefore that much more dependent on tongue weight for stability. Then when a trailer with a high CG starts rocking...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, August 20, 2012 - 12:36 pm:

Henry,
I think your option to pull with a 3/4 ton pick up is the best idea.

You asked, "why the different ratings for a boat trailer vs. others?". I see the big difference between a boat trailer and other trailers is the weight distribution and the distance from the hitch to the trailer axle. Just because of the boat configuration and the requirement for boat trailer to be long for launching without getting the tow vehicle too far in the water, the distance from the hitch to a boat trailer axle and weight is much more then a normal trailer. The longer the distance from the load and trailer axle then the more stable a trailer will tow down the road. Shorter heavy trailers are much more likely to fishtail down the road then a long heavy trailer. The difference in the ratings for a boat trailer vs. others trailers makes good sense to me.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Ashton Rosenkrans on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 10:48 am:

We tow a 24' enclosed car hauler (7000lbs max load) with an F-250 Super Duty Turbo Diesel with an equalizing hitch. The max load is well within the limits of the truck with the equalizer hitch and gives me great peace of mind while on the road. Moral of the story, don't guess. Do the math using the specs for the trailer and tow vehicle and get more trailer and tow vehicle than you think you need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 11:08 am:

After reading this stuff I believe I'm lucky to be alive.

We used to tow a stock car on an open trailer to the track with a 1951 Ford sedan.
The trailer had a rack for tires that made it somewhat top heavy and the tongue weight was enough to make the rear bumper drag when exiting the driveway.

It would take about a mile to get it going and about a half mile to get it stopped.
There was a downhill section on Rt 1 in Norwood MA just before the track.
If we didn't stop at the top of the hill we would be going too fast at the bottom to make the right hand turn into the parking lot.
When it happened we would start flashing the headlamps and the guy directing traffic would clear cars out of the way so we could sail past him and turn around.
Of course we always smiled and waved as we went by :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 11:42 am:

Pictures from your stock racing days would be fun to see, Fred ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 02:39 pm:

I tried to tow a TT behind a 1969 Mustang Mach 1 back in 1969, from Bakersfield to the Old Long Beach Hill Climb with a rental car trailer. The trailer continually tried to push and wag the car all the way down. On the way back it started swaying and I ended up doing a 180 in the middle of I5 while going over an overpass. I was lucky I didn't go over it. Nothing broke but I was pointed the wrong way on the freeway had to have CHP help to get turned around... Never again will I tow with a under sized vehicle. John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 02:58 pm:

In my experience, having enough power to pull the trailer is not the problem. Having enough brakes to stop it is the critical issue.

Not only do you risk having the trailer 'pass you by' in the event of a quick stop, but if the trailer gets to swaying (usually because of not enough weight on the tongue, but can be caused by the backwash from a passing big rig) you need to apply the trailer's brakes to calm it down. This is easy with electric brakes, but not with 'surge' brakes.

U-Haul trailers, for the most part, do not have brakes. Those that do, have "surge" brakes, and the generally accepted notion is that maybe 10% to 20% of them actually work at all, let alone work properly. The "mechanics" at a U-Haul depot are simply not qualified, and don't have the time, to work on them and keep them in good condition.

Given that situation, if you want to tow with your existing sedan, anything you can do to lighten the load is worth doing. For instance, instead of renting an enclosed trailer, why not the car carrier that consists of two tracks with wheels, and then do what you need to do to protect the T (plastic wrap, etc.)?

All in all, you are far better off not trying to tow your precious toy with a substandard vehicle, on a substandard trailer. Better not to go at all, than lose it and maybe your life as well!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 03:06 pm:

Roger -- I'd love to have pictures and track programs from those days.
We lost most of our pictures, brochures, furniture, magazines and books in 1972 when Corning NY was flooded.

I also lost a 1971 Alfa 1750 GTV that someone backed into a stone wall near Watkin's Glen on Grand Prix weekend that was in the process of being made into a club racer because it would not roll.
We saved the Alfa 1300 GTA Jr and the Datsun 1500 Fairlady.

River water during a flood is very dirty!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 05:08 pm:

I did not read all of the posts in detail but if your Acura is four cylinder turbocharged and intercooled one it will have the horsepower to pull but the transmission will be working hard. If it has a complete factory trailer towing package with a proper receiver you should be safe. As mentioned above automobiles and trucks are rated at about half of their true capabilities.

If it is a V6 and has a factory towing package it will have more torque, a larger radiator, and perhaps a modified transmission and will tow it easily. It is true that trailer rental companies don't like you to tow vehicles even though they provide ramps for driving on to their trailers.

If they write a contract and you tell them you will be carrying something other than a vehicle you could get into legal issues with them.

You are at the legal limit of the towing capacity and the main issue appears to be they type of load and not towing capabilities. If your vehicle has a trailer brake control as a part of the package it will work electric brakes. If not you will have to rent a trailer that is equipped with surge brakes. These surge brakes lock up the brakes when you back up so they must have a connection to your back-up light circuit so that it can activate the lock-out solenoid on the trailer. If the trailer is not so equipped don't rent it. You would have to have someone get out and move a lever on the trailer each and every time you need to back up. If you must make several back and forth movements in order to turn around you must push the lever each time you change direction. It is a big pain ! If you don't do this the brakes will lock and then catch fire at speed.

I purchased a boat that had this issue about ten years ago and it was not fun. The brake heated up the wheel and the wheel got so hot that it popped the tire and took out the fender. A Modern trailer should have surge operated disk brakes with a lock-out switch connected to your back up lights. If it is not so equipped, don't rent it.


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