Can you use a 1942 6 volt Voltage regulator on your Generator ? If so , how would you wire it ? If not , why can't you use one ?
BWD - Voltage Regulator
Part # R135
Dan
The Model T uses a third brush regulation type generator in conjunction with a reverse current relay cutout (which, by the way, should be replaced with a FunProjects Voltage regulator for better charging system control and reliability).
The type of regulator in your photo if for a full field control type generator and will not work on an original Model T generator.
Ron the Coilman
Thanks Ron... I knew there had to be a good explanation why no one had used one before . Got my Speedster on the road finally... Recieved best original Hot Rod award at one of the shows. Everything is working great , and I do plan to replace the Cut out with a fun projects as money allows . I have a good charge rate with the cutout , but when I turn on the lights I get a negative reading on the gauge , and it never comes up to even 0 . Also seems like it cuts out a bit, or doesn't run as smooth as when there is no current draw. Yes I have a 30 amp fuse inline , I am using the dreaded Distributor instead of stock ignition, I have no Mag system . Haven't taken the Volt meter out yet to check anything as far as voltage and drops, etc. As a side question ,Will a clamp over the wires Amp meter that you use in AC house current work or show current draw in a 6 volt DC system ?.....Dan
Also, are the Model A Cutouts the same as Internally as a Model T cut out ?
Dan
Yes, Model T and A reverse current relay cutouts are the same and interchangeable.
That is NOT the case with the FP VR. Order the correct type VR for your installed battery polarity.
Ron the Coilman
Dan, I about give up on keeping a generator going and the cost has gotten very expensive.
There is an alternator with a built in regulator available for a T (gear driven like the generator). The price is very reasonable. I have been using several for some years with very little attention and the alternator brings a low battery up a lot faster than a generator.
Also, on a speedster, being original is not that big an issue.
Hi Willie.... I agree, but I am trying to keep my Speedster period correct for one that would have been built up to 1935 or older . Over the last month I have been doing so much work to it ...rewire w/ correct looms, taking off as much accessory plastic wiring and replacing it with fabric covered . There are things I added : 6 volt horn relay, starter solenoid , inline fuse , but I used the oldest type I could find , so it looks pretty period correct . I found two large bags of military surplus copper with cad plating wire connectors with no plastic insulation , but I am too lazy to use fabric with shellac to insulate them so I have slipped and used heat shrink.....but no blue, or pink..only black ..LOL
The reason such a regulator is not a drop in replacement is because it works by controlling field coil current. The T generator in its original form does not have the field connection externally available, unlike later cars of the 1930's and beyond.
Your 1942 regulator can be used, but it entails a modification to the generator where the connection to the field winding is brought out to a separate insulated terminal.
To regulate an unmodified 3rd brush generator requires something along the lines of the well known 'grounding switch', where the generator output is simply shorted out when full charge is reached. This is the principle by which the FP regulator operates.
Modify your generator like this, and you could use it:
Funny how a worn out broken generator is compared to a new alternator to show how much better the alternator is. Kind of like coils, mag coil, or about anything else for that matter. Someone doesn't know how to repair something so they replace it with a new something else and condemn the old item.
It won't work unless the regulator is current adjustable. Most of the older units were but I don't know about the modern replacements. That's a 35A regulator and will attempt to get the generator to produce full current. That will smoke a T generator pretty quick.
John H:
The FP regulator actually does not work as you indicated but that is close. The control is fully proportional and replicates very closely the action of any other automotive VR in that it controls the field current in proportion to the needs of the battery and thus controls the charge rate in proportion to the needs of the car's electric system which on a T is largely just the battery during the day since when running on magneto there is nothing in the car that is discharging except perhaps a brake light.
Doug M.
The original prototype Fun Projects VR is on my '23 Touring car and has been on there since the late 1980's on a Generator rebuilt before that by Leo Musch (R.I.P.). I have had Ron Pattersons generator on there too from time to time but currently have the LM generator back on. Neither generator has had any service issues whatsoever. I took them off to change out the brush plate insulators to the new design ones but the old ones had not yet failed. I wanted to make sure my new brush insulators would properly fit so put them on both of my generators.
I just an hour ago got back from a 3 day tour to Moline, IL with the Midwest Chapter of the MTFCI. There were about 12 of us in our T's on the tour. It was about 147 miles from my house to Moline motel parking lot that we arrived at on Friday late afternoon. We toured Moline and Davenport IA the next day stopping at Craig Beek's museum, the Arsonal, and another place called Dahl's who had some "cream puff" cars and then returned home on Sunday. We had numerous stops on the way home and Renee and I even stopped and checked out a camp site we intend to use with our grand kids. The total trip for me was well over 300 miles and the T was started with its starter probably 12-15 times at various stops. Each time after a "start" the ammeter would show about 8-10 amps charge for a few minutes and then level off at 1 to 2 amps and stay there. When I pulled the car into my garage an hour ago it was charging at 1 amp when I turned the key off. The VR has had no upgrades since it was installed. Since with this setup you have control of both the Current (as set by the 3rd brush) and Voltage (as controlled by the VR). you have a system that is pretty hard to damage unless you have bad wiring prone to shorts and that would be the same issues for an alternator or a generator. With LED's looming in the near distance as likely T parts, the T generator in fact will be so lightly loaded as to make the addition of a smaller generator a viable option rather than going the other way to a larger power plant. Just my musings and I have no real issue with those who want to install an alternator for whatever reason.
I want to publicly thank Frank and Kathy Woodin for a great tour and fantastic weather. It was a wonderful 3 day event.
John H. I always assumed that was how a FP voltage regulator worked also. Just throw an active crowbar circuit at the generator. If it were robust enough and protected, I don't see why it wouldn't work.