This question may be answered differently in different States. In this application it is specific for Missouri. If the engine block is changed, is it correct to restamp the block with the original number or must a new title be obtained? I have read that in the T's day the engine block was restamped.
Harry,
The old number was stamped on the new block only if you bought a block with no number on it. In Missouri go to any vehicle inspection station and get a idod. It will cost 15 dollars and they will take pictures of your dash, the engine number and the back of the car and upload the pictures to the main data base. Then take a receipt showing the purchase of the new engine, your old title, and the idod you will receive to a license office and for a nominal fee you will get a new title. It is very easy here in misery (Missouri).
Steven
One problem Steve, I do not have a receipt for the replacement engine. My Dad took it out of another car some time ago and built an experimental engine to put in that car. I discovered the situation when I was putting new insurance cards in the T's. He changed the title on the car with the experimental engine but not the one that received the engine.
Just restamp the number on the new block as outlined in the Ford service manual. Not sure about Missouri but most states will issue you a rebuilt title if you do something like Steve is advocating.
I don't have a clue what Missouri law says about this, but I'd just stamp the old engine number on the chassis and forget about it.
When you have a short block built sometimes by some one else, they ask your number and they grind off what ever was there and restamp it, that's the way they did it in the 80's I bought a rebuilt short block, and then sent him my old block as a core, he then ground that number off to stamp what ever number the next fellow had
Harry -- I'd take Henry's suggestion. Most folks (DMV included) don't know that the Model T's engine number is the car's ID number. If you show them the number they want to see on the frame, that should work.
Thanks for all of the inputs. Right now I think I will make sure the correct number is stamped on the frame.
Harry -- Unless your car is a '26 or '27, you will need to put the number on the frame.
In Califunny, any modification of the number on an engine block will get you suspected of stolen property by the CHP if they do an inspection. They are suspicious enough of crooked numbers on early blocks or radiator leaks having caused pitting on that side of the engine.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Harry
Mostly depends on your state's DMV regs.
In FL, have it easy. The law allows pre-'45 cars, when properly titled, to have engine changes made, a simple form is used, no notary, the registered owner, completes with new engine # installed. Only thing necessary is a bill of sale or statement from where the new motor came from, (so stolen engines aren't being used).
Have done this several times, the FL DMV issues a new title with the new engine number that was installed. But this year when I did one, the fee increased, now to do that simple engine # change on the title, costs $78, same price as a new registration! Oh our gov't always sure wants more cash.
Both of my Model T's have replaced engines. The 26 has a Canadian made engine from 27 and the 1922 has a 1919 engine. Now where would I find the frame number on the frame?
In Washington the guy who inspected mine knew exactly where to look.
He knew there was no # on the chassis and just looked at the block. ('24 Tudor)
Martin, frame numbers began in 1926. If your frame was made late enough in the model year to have a number, it will be under the floorboard on top of the frame, like this.
I've read that sometimes it's on the left frame rail, but I gather that's pretty rare. I've never seen it. If your '22 ever gets a 1922 engine, "somebody" could stamp its number on your frame.
Steve
'sometimes it's on the left frame rail, but I gather that's pretty rare. I've never seen it
How 'bout this photo I took last year, hadn't seen it on the left either till this chassis, no number on right, just on left frame rail! Stamps on rail began Dec 1925 for the Improved Car.
Steve
Just got thinking, the left frame rail would be most practical for the assembly line worker assigned with the hammer and number dies.
A glance at the motor number side of the block would be easy from the left side
The engine number stamped on the top of frame has also been found under the LEFT FRONT Fender. This was on early 26 cars. May not have been factory, but looked it. Dan
Why bother?
What happens if you have a car that frame and engine No.are different from title, a car from a collection of parts ?
Change the Number, and save a hassle!
Herm is onto something there. If somebody changes the frame number to match the title, the engine number doesn't matter.
Lorenzo,
In Texas, you can title a pieced together vehicle by going the 'bonded title' route if you have all of your receipts. Basically, you purchase a bond on the vehicle and are issued a bonded title. After a period of time (3 years - I think), you receive a regular title. The title would be tied to the engine number in the case of a pre-26 "T" or frame number in the case of a 26-27.
Thankfully there is another (much easier) option...last September House Bill 806 was signed into law. HB806 allows kit or assembled vehicles to be titled as a 'street rod' (pre-1949) or 'custom' (1949-25 years old). These vehicles may be modified extensively and will be titled according to the vehicle they 'look' like. Unfortunately, the word 'replica' will appear on these titles.
Your state may or may not have similar laws.
Gary
When I was a kid, nearly fifty years ago, my dad had business in a small town. There was a long retired deputy sheriff there that told me many stories about his early days in the department. His first job, in the '20s, was to stamp engine numbers onto model T frames. It seems that Califunny, even then, did not want to do what every other state did. They wanted the serial number ON THE FRAME even while Henry was selling the cars with the only number being on the block. I have seen enough earlier T frames with serial type numbers somewhere on the frame to believe him. The funny part is, they did not have any standard location to put the number. I have seen them in the center or side of the front cross-member, depending on whether they had earlier or later spring clamps. I have seen them on top of frame rails, sometimes under a fender. And I have seen them on the side of frame rails, usually under the left front fender.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
What number of the 2 will need to change , the frame or the engine
Thank you for this info
Because the engine can change, the VIN should be on the frame. It will still match the title even if a different engine is in the car.
Check with your local DMV. I wouldn't even think about changing, altering, or re-stamping a serial number or vehicle identification number without written authorization from the state. People have gone to jail for this very thing.
Bottom line: know your local laws!