Anyone that knows me, knows I don't have a lot of time to really get a lot of work done on projects. They also know that I have too many projects.
But I have had to sell a few cars over the years that I absolutely did not want to sell. So I want to replace them with something nice, but on a very tight budget. I have a couple of pre-'15 projects coming along nicely, for me. They work, but they don't really fit the HCCA niche I want most.
So, I had been getting that itch again. I need something to fill a need.
Before a '13 frame dropped in my lap (thank you David D), my mostly '13 speedster started out as a mostly '15. (There are some good reasons why the '13 should not become a full bodied/fendered car.) But a lot of the true '15 parts I had along with a bunch of other brass era parts were still sitting in the pile. So I began thinking (sometimes a bad idea).
Exchanging emails with one of my long time best friends, I made the comment "an ill-advised idea to put together a '15 runabout".
He responds "Have you got a body yet? Have I got a deal for you".
I had some parts he can use that I have been wanting to give to him for some time. We needed to get a weekend set up. But now, the exchange has been made.
Someone years ago began working on it. Then it was left in a field for awhile. My friend got it with plans to restore it, but then he got something better.
It is actually in pretty decent shape. Rustout is minimal. There is almost enough original wood to copy to re-wood it. He even added that nice hood former and a few other nice things. I have most of the parts to complete it except for the seat springs, radiator, LR fender, and top.
Thank you Dan Haynes!
The kicker is, I have, over the years, restored nine model Ts. Only the '15/'16 centerdoor was in better condition when I began.
Some of us never learn. (But I am shooting for first tours in 2015.)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
That which brings both pleasure and pride is not a bad thing....
He's a good bloke that Flivverboy...
Good luck !
Bede
Wayne,
Congratulations! I'm sure you will enjoy your next project a lot. I would encourage you as well as anyone else to pick a year range (in this case 1915-16) and even a section of that range to build your car such as early, mid, or late 1915. While it can take a little more time to find the appropriate parts, it does not take any more effort to restore the 1915 rear axle as it does to restore a 1919-1925 rear axle or to rebuild a 1915 engine and transmission as a 1924 etc. And from the sounds of it you already have most of the correct 1915 parts – which is great.
I would also recommend that you review the posting “Smoking Gun” that highlights some of the differences between the 1915-1916 and the later black radiator cars see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/13259.html . For example the body panels for the roadsters are basically the same 1915-1921 or 22 ish. But while you are restoring the body changing out the front panel on the cowl that has the half-moon cut out (used on the black radiator years) to one that goes straight across would be a detail easy to change during restoration/rebuild. It could also be filled in – but you might want to replace the entire flat piece as it is often difficult to get a repair on a flat piece of metal to look nice (at least at my skill level). The same for removing the reinforcing bar above the half-moon cut out. And of course using the earlier 1915-early 1916 door latch with the vertical latch bolt (there were several styles used). And for those that might have been wondering -- the HCCA allows lots of 1915 registered Ts with the half-moon cut outs, the mid 1917-1922 windshield brackets and windshield hinges etc. on their tours. It was a common way to restore a T back in the 1950s and early 1960s to replace a body that needed rewooding with a later one that did not need rewooding. (Who in their right mind in 1951 would rewood a 1915 touring body when for $85 they could purchase a good “used” 1918 touring with solid wood, good panels, mag horn etc, and four new Riverside tires? That is why my Dad originally purchased our 1918 – he was looking for a rear tub and yes $85 for the entire car. But it was in such good shape that he never wanted to swap the body to the 1915 cut off – and I’m glad he made that decision. )
[Caution thread drift: Note my extra May 1915 Beaudett cut off body has the more common style door latch used 1917-1920s on the passenger door that I thought was originally introduced during the 1916 model year when both style were often found. So the 1917-1920s style latch may have been introduced earlier than I originally thought or of course it may have been replaced with a later style door latch on my cut off body. The rear striker plate on that body was for the earlier vertical style latch. If anyone has additional information on when Ford began introducing the common door latch used in most 1917-1920 Model T open cars, please let us know. ]
I would appreciate additional photos of your roadster body if you have time to send them (posting is fine also – but the higher resolution photos allow me to see additional details). You could click on my name at the beginning of any of my postings and my e-mail address is the third line down. Does your body have a letter on the front seat heel panel? Is there a body number on the right front floorboard riser? [Please see the forum posting “Home for the Holidays” at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html for where and what to look for.] Also does your body have the metal or wood seat frames? In the price list of parts the touring cars clearly had some body makers that went back to the wood seat frames during 1918 & 1919 [probably not all the body makers as I have a May 1918 Beaudett touring body that still used the metal seat frames and most likely a Fisher Body produced in Oct 1917 mounted on a Dec 1917 engine date chassis that does have the wood seat frames]. But the Sep 1, 1923 price list of parts does not make that same distinction for the Roadster Bodies. Instead it breaks up the roadster parts more into 1915-16 and 20 for the seat spring cushion for the wood frame and 1917-22 for the seat cushion for the metal frame. Another area for us to try and capture some additional details.
Again congratulations on your new project. I’m sure the “pile of 1915 parts” will turn into “Black Beauty” [or whatever color you pick] under your skillful hands.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Welcome to the club. I suspect my 1915 runabout is a put-together too.
The nicest thing about a "put together" is it ended its first life as someone's "take apart" so the circle continues. It looks like it will be a fun project Wayne.
Looks solid from here. WTG, Wayne!
Don B,
I like that.
Hap,
Thank you very much. I will try to get some close-ups around the body sometime in the next several days. How large a file should I send to you? Usually when I email photos I size them the same as I do for this forum. For cost reasons, there will be some later parts made to look earlier. But easily half the stuff I have for it is late brass era T. Unless a decent '15 block comes my way for a reasonable (cheap) price, I will just have to use the '14 block I have. (HCCA acceptable).
I have looked at the seat riser and heal panel area and not found any letters to indicate the body builder. A steel plate is, however, nailed to the wood just inside the door that looks like those on the thread link you posted. I will send you the numbers in a few days whether I have the photos or not. Maybe you can tell from them who the builder was.
The seat frame is metal. But there is also a remnant of wood attached on top of the metal. I am curious about it as I would not expect they would have raised the seat cushion in that way. It also would sort of defeat the front edge from holding the cushion in place. (?) There are also pieces of metal above the seat frame that are bent and I can't tell where or how they were attached on the front.
It will be black. I like my cars to look like they could have been pulled out of a vintage photograph. Most of my Ts have had some accessories. Five have been speedsters, and my coupe is "well accessorized". The only non-Ford-factory-issue planned to go into this one are the lined inside brakes (for safety reasons), and an original brass-head rear view mirror I never got put on the center-door before I sold it. I have been waiting for the right car to use it on.
Thank you Don, Bede, Steve, John, and Danial. I am really itching to get going on this one.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Wayne,
Yes photos would be great. Also if you can add a ruler or a quarter etc. so we can better judge the size of things that can be helpful. Photos about the 500 to 800 kb range allow us to zoom in and look at details and they still e-mail well. For hard to read body numbers a higher resolution can sometimes allow us to figure it out, but usually a clearly focused 800 kb size photo will do the same thing – especially if it is taken only a couple of feet from the body number. And it sounds like your number is easy to read so that shouldn’t be an issue. For any single e-mail, please keep the size below 10 mb and it should make it fine. That works out to about 11 or so of those 800 kb photos. I usually find out what the size of the photo is by hovering the cursor over it and it says xxx kb or right clicking on the photo and looking a properties. Plan B – I just try to send them and if the note comes back “too large’’ then I break it into two e-mails.
If you have a Dec serial number on the engine block, it is plausible that it could have come in an early 1915 style car. But I would suspect you can obtain a 1915 block for the cost of shipping by offering to swap the 1914 block for a similar 1915 block or purchase the similar 1915 block and sell the similar 1914 block. Obviously the car is the same amount of fun to drive regardless of what serial number is on the block. An advertisement on the swap site, letting folks know you are looking for one, putting in an e-bay search etc. might turn up what you are looking for.
The photos will probably help us make more sense out of the extra wood and metal pieces you mentioned. They may must be out of place or often times things are added over the years by different owners.
You have already put several Ts on the road, and I’m confident this one will be joining them soon.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off