The winner and proud new owner of engine #1 is:
Donald Wheeler
Groveland, IL
Ticket # 1118
We are hoping to have at least as much for the museum since we have 665 tickets sold for the 2nd raffle and hopefully the cost will not be more than the first engine. Stay tuned to the Vintage Ford for the results of the second drawing and stay connected to our website for the rebuild progress on engine #2!
Thanks to everyone for their contributions to the Museum.
What engine #2?
I was thinking the same thing Dave!!?????
Congratulations Donald
Jim
Congratulations to you Donald Wheeler!
Orlando
I thought the drawing was on August 31st, or is this a different one?
The August 31st drawing was moved to August 25th to co-inside with a Tin Lizzies ABQ Tour closing banquet in Las Vegas NM
So when did the raffle for a second engine start? Last I heard the engine raffle was sold out. I missed buying a ticket. Is there another raffle and is there any tickets left?
I have never met him, but years and years ago I contacted Mr. Wheeler about a T he'd listed for sale. I was ultimately unable to purchase it but the several conversations I had with him revealed a pleasant and knowledgeable gentleman who was very patient with an ignorant kid taking up his time. Congratulations Don; couldn't happen to nicer guy.
The engine #1 raffle sold out quickly, so a second engine is being rebuilt and those buying raffle tickets after the sellout are entered in a raffle for engine #2. The deadline was August 15th for purchasing a ticket.
SO essentially what you're saying is: you had such a good turn out for the first engine, you decided to build a second engine and enter all the losers of the first raffle in a new raffle without allowing another buy in? So was the deadline of the 15 for the first raffle or the second raffle?
There were 503 tickets sold for the first raffle. And the drawing was 8/25.
There were 665 tickets sold for the second raffle.
The deadline for entering was 8/15.
See Ted's explanation above.
William: Think about this. They had so many people send in money for raffle tickets for the first raffle that they would have had to return bunches of them since it had a limit of 500 tickets to be sold. So............ instead of returning their money, they decided to build up a second engine to give away, take the tickets they would have had to return and put them in the second drawing which had no limit other than being received on time.
There was one winner and 502 losers in the first drawing, one winner and 664 losers in the second drawing. The first drawing had a limit of 500 tickets. The second drawing had no limit on the number of tickets as long as they were purchased by 8-15-2012.
This was a Hell of a nice thing for the Albuquerque club to do for the museum. They did lots of work, raised several thousand dollars and two guys got rebuilt engines. The rest of us who bought tickets can consider that we made a donation to the museum.
Might point out too, that if they had returned the tickets it would have cost them $.44 for a stamp for every one. 500 tickets returned would have cost $220 just for stamps to send them back.
OK I understand now what went on. Two raffles, but both had the same deadline.
Maybe I missed an announcement of the August 15th deadline for buying a ticket to the second engine drawing, but like many, this is the first that I have heard of it. It would have been nice to see the second drawing publicized as much as the first drawing and that is what I think has some people surprised and baffled, and some upset. Also, I don't think many people understand why there was a limit of 500 tickets the first go round and no limit the second go round. I'm not upset. I didn't buy a ticket, but I can see why others might be.
I don't think the second raffle was in the original plan. So they could either return 664 entries or do something else. They came up with a plan to build a second engine and raffle it off rather than return the 664 entries. Every entry sent in on time got one shot at an engine. Seems fair to me.
Congratulations to Mr. Wheeler. And a big thank you to the Albuquerque club as well as thank you to all of you who contributed towards the museum. It’s a good cause … especially if we like Model Ts! And while only two folks will “win” an engine, all of us can “win” knowing we are doing “our part” to help preserve the history of the Model T’s and to promote our club & museum.
From the results, it looks like many of us are very willing to help support the museum, especially if there is the chance of winning a rebuilt Model T engine assembly. Perhaps there is enough interest to do something similar again. If folks are interested in doing one more raffle – they could recommend that to Jay Klehfoth [his e-mail is listed on the contacts page at: http://mtfca.com/clubpages/contacts.htm ]. And they could let Jay know their thoughts on how to better advertise the event etc. Or they could organize a group to rebuild another engine, carb, rear axle, etc. and donate it to the museum so it could be raffled off etc.
Again thank you all for your help and support.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Looks to me like it was pretty well advertised, they sold 1168 tickets.
Thanks Stan and Ted for your explanations.
Congratulations to Don Wheeler.
And thanks to all for their contributions to the Museum.
Once they hit the 500 limit in the original raffle, the others would have been null and void. Was the 500 ticket limit specified from the get go?
The reason I ask is because in the original posting in May, there is no mention of a specific number of tickets allotted for the raffle.
A specific number of 500 is mentioned two months later on Sunday July 15th, and the cut-off date for tickets was still one month away. It is mentioned in that thread started on July 15th that it was the intention to only sell 500 tickets. Where was that publicized on this forum prior to that date?
And it would not have been necessary to mail anybody's tickets back since ALL PROCEEDS were to be donated to the museum. A raffle is just that. You don't get a refund.....
I agree with William, those tickets sold, or contributions received after the cutoff date for the first engine drawing, didn't have to be returned, they just became contributions to the museum. No need to spend 44 cents to return anybody's money. To satisfy every contributor over and above number 500 (and I still don't see why there had to be a limit on the first drawing), a simple notice in The Vintage Ford and here on the Forum would have explained the situation to everyone over number 500. I congratulate Mr. Wheeler on his good fortune and I give "hats off" to the Albuquerque Tin Lizzies for their generous fund raising for the museum. As I stated above, I didn't purchase a ticket, as I have all the motors I'll ever need and the ones I do need are already rebuilt. Now, some of you may say I don't have grounds to question it because I didn't buy a ticket, but I would take the same stance if my local club, The Space City T's in Houston had been the club doing it.
If the 500 ticket limit was never specified until the raffle was well underway, then in actuality there were 1168 tickets sold for the #1 engine. And that should have been the end of it. It's not kosher to change the parameters of the raffle when the event is two months underway.
The money is indeed going to a good cause, and Mr. Wheeler won the engine fairly.
Well, it sure as hell improved your odds of winning if you bought a ticket. Your odds of winning were one in 500, if they had continued to sell tickets with no limit your odds of winning would have been one in 1168. It looks to me like everything they did was far more than necessary or expected. They ADDED another prize, they didn't take one away. Taking one away would not have been Kosher, adding one looks to me like doing the right thing even when it's not necessary.
Like I say, "They crucified Jesus and shot Abraham Lincoln, what chance have I got?"
Props to the Albuquerque club for doing this.
This kind of attitude and PMB&C is why I will be putting my carburetor collection on ebay this winter instead of donating it to the museum. I just don't need the aggravation of somebody bitching about how I built the display and how wrong the information is on the carburetors, how I should have done it and how they would have done it. Could also be why a lot of the guys who used to be on the forum and actually had something to contribute are long gone and will be forever.
"They crucified Jesus and shot Abraham Lincoln, what chance have I got?"
Holy Cow, I am going to make a sign with this on it and hang it in my office! Stan, don't let anyone get under your skin. My mom always tells me, "remember, some people aren't happy even if you do the work for free and give them money besides!"
It's been hanging up in my office for probably 20 or 25 years. I've seen it posted on here several times since I posted it.
I'm pretty thick skinned. I've spent 30 years in the auction business. 397 commercial on-site auctions as of last weekend from northern Montana to Colorado, western Montana to eastern Minnesota. I've sold everything from Precious Moments figurines to Buffalo, Real Estate, collector cars and tractors, machine shops and little estates out behind somebody's house. If you can put up with all the BS and big shot know-it-alls in the auction business you can put up with just about any idiot in the world. We definitely get our share.
One of my other favorite sayings is, "The loudest boos come from the cheapest seats." That's true.
Sure surprises me what threads cause controversy.
Guess the "disagreement" gene is just part of human nature....if Cain & Able couldn't settle their differences amicably it's no wonder "stuff" happens.
Wonder if there will ever be a "true" peace on this planet?
"Good guys finish last" comes to mind again - right up there with "no good deed goes unpunished."
'Tis a pity we humans act this way.
Hap
Thanks for your comment.
I would also like to give you a belated Thank You for the encouragement you gave me when I asked on the Forum almost 10 years ago if my son (paralyzed right side) could learn to drive a Model T.
Well, like Henry said, "He Can" now drive a Model T.
Thanks to all the wonderful Model T people out there.
You know good and well that you put two people in a room long enough, they will find something to argue about. Going the Cain & Able route is overkill: nobody here is going to slay someone in a fit of jealousy because God liked their offering better than the other.....
I'm not trying to cause controversy, as in the ultimate scheme of things, I really don't care. I just think it's necessary to show that there was never a limit specified for the drawing, until the drawing was basically over.
If that makes me an idiot...then so be it...
So if there's a 500 ticket limit, does that mean there will be a third drawing to satisfy the remaining 168 tickets? Now, that would be bordering on lunacy......
There is an old Jewish story that is indicative of human nature in general. The Navy lands on a desert island where they find two Jews who have been stranded there for several years. They notice that there are three synagogues. They ask about the synagogues. One man answers, "That's the synagogue I attend, and that one over there is the synagogue he attends." "So what's the third one?" asks the Navy officer. "That's the one we would never set foot in!"
This is a wonderful effort that the good folks of the Albuquerque Tin Lizzie Club engaged in for the good of the MTFCA Museum. They are doing this from the goodness of their hearts.
The Tin Lizzy group, both men and women, are the best people you can find on this earth. I'm honored to have them as my friends.
Great job Albuquerque Tin Lizzy's!
Orlando
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/300145.html
That's the thread I mentioned in my post, and that's the first time a limit of 500 tickets was ever mentioned.
So what's with all the bitching we will have another chance to win a rebuilt engine. If you put an ad in the Magazine it might be 60-80 days before it gets to your house. Our small club of less then 12 members purchased 500.00 worth of tkts so the $$$ would go to the museum. Worthy cause
I'm sorry I used my American right to state my opinion on this thread. People who know me well, know I am not a complainer (unless someone has really done me wrong.) In this case, I didn't buy a ticket, because I didn't need a rebuilt engine, especially one with a Canadian block. If it had been a 26-27 USA block, I would have bought some just on the slim chance that I might have won. If I don't sell the 26 basket case coupe that I have, by the end of the year, maybe I'll sell the sheet metal at a local rod swap meet and if I can get my local club to rebuild the engine AND chassis, maybe we could raffle it for proceeds to the museum. If I have anything to say about it, the raffle will be run differently.
I have spoken to Mr. Miles and he explained the situation in a thorough manner and as to exactly what happened. I did not solicit him for an answer, he provided upon his own. I am satisfied with our conversation, and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed.
Thanks.
Link to a video of the draw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baod_9EAMUU
Congratulation to BOTH Winners .....
Jim
WOW -- youse guys love controversy!
Stan is right-on
The Albuquerque Club and Museum did a great job with the raffle.
Remember the money was considered to be a donation to the Museum with the added benefit of a chance to win a T motor.
Someone made a decision to limit the "donations" to 500 but the response was spectacular so the Albuquerque guys supplied another motor and you know the rest!
I can't say enough for what the NM guys did.
Providing one motor was great - supplying two is fantastic.
If another club or individual could do the same we could all make more donations and dream about having a new T motor.
The net effect is to strengthen the museum and help it become "The Model T Place"
My only suggestion is to have a provision for those of us that live far away to have the motor shipped to us at our expense.
I am confused. What has happened to the second raffle? Was it held? Who won?
Engine shipping for the second engine can be facilitated at the winner's expense.
The second raffle has not been held yet.
Shipping of the engine ...
I will provide free enclosed transport
of the second engine if it is crated
and loaded and unloaded from my trailer.
This offer is subject to my available
scheduled transport routes and is limited
to the lower 48 states.
Pick up and drop off locations must accommodate
a truck & trailer 65 feet long to pull
in and out without backing up or turning
around.
Jim
Wow!
That is very accommodating, Jim.
Thanks.